Home shop planning with cad (fusion 360)
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    139

    Default Home shop planning with cad (fusion 360)

    This summer when my milling machine project (Deckel FP2) is hopefully completed I want to completely remake my shop and assign more space to metalworking than I do now. The metal working area is currently the small area to the top right, It will not be enough for the vision I have got of my shop. I will want to put in a small surface planer some day and a workbench that I can house a 630x400mm surface plate on.

    I will separate the shop int two separate areas, either with a sliding door that goes into the wall, or with heavy plastic drapes.





    Models don't look like what I really got for most part, but I've measured all my stuff so they are pretty dimensionally accurate with regards to the footprint they take up. The black boxes are stuff I did not model or didn't bother finding a model for, it's a shelf and a compressor I built to take up little floor space.

    Do you guys have any input on this? Like I am wondering if it's good idea to put all my machines against the walls, it makes intuitive sense, I get a big free area in the middle of the floor that I can use to roll around the small workbenches (600 x 1200 mm footprint) on wheels.

    Though I have seen others, and read it recommended that the milling machine perhaps be better in the center of the room, such as in this configuration:



    Since it is a Deckel it is operated from the side rather than in front, so I think it could work as well against the wall as long as the sliding head have clearance. In this configuration the welding table near the big door might be a bit cramped, but all these small benches are mobile and can be moved around the shop as is needed.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    128
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    55

    Default

    I'm curious as to where you got the models. I use Fusion and would love to do the same thing.

    Thanks,
    Ted

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,042
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    610
    Likes (Received)
    1015

    Default

    The only things I noticed right away:

    You probably want 8' on both sides of your table saw for ripping full boards. The dwg doesn't look like you have that much.

    I wouldn't put the mill in the middle of the floor. You'll sling chips EVERYWHERE. Up against a wall will keep the chips in a local area.

    This is only a preference, but I like rolling carts better than stationary workbenches. Carts can be moved to different work areas or out of the way when needed. Workbenches tend to collect clutter.

  4. Likes M.B. Naegle, AD Design liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    264
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    41
    Likes (Received)
    121

    Default

    I have my mill in a corner on the diagonal. I can only drive the long table from the right side but it takes up a minimum of space in the shop.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Booze Daily View Post
    The only things I noticed right away:

    You probably want 8' on both sides of your table saw for ripping full boards. The dwg doesn't look like you have that much.

    I wouldn't put the mill in the middle of the floor. You'll sling chips EVERYWHERE. Up against a wall will keep the chips in a local area.

    This is only a preference, but I like rolling carts better than stationary workbenches. Carts can be moved to different work areas or out of the way when needed. Workbenches tend to collect clutter.
    I am tight for space but fortunately the table saw has a mobile base so I can pull a lever and put it on casters and move or rotate it, but I want a default position where it will spend most of it's time. Based on my experience I believe in small mobile benches I can roll around the shop as I need, that also double as tool carts with plenty of drawers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Erich View Post
    I have my mill in a corner on the diagonal. I can only drive the long table from the right side but it takes up a minimum of space in the shop.
    I wonder if that works better with a Bridgeport that you work infront of, rather than to the side?


    Quote Originally Posted by Technical Ted View Post
    I'm curious as to where you got the models. I use Fusion and would love to do the same thing.

    Thanks,
    Ted
    Honestly I just googled the name of each thing, using google image search and putting 3D or free cad or similar in the search term.
    Grabcad.com is where I got the majority of the models.

  7. Likes Technical Ted liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Utah
    Posts
    4,285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1156
    Likes (Received)
    2337

    Default

    You're going to kick yourself, or end up moving the black cabinet, that is behind the Headstock on the Lathe. I would situate the Mill so that I could have un-safe big pieces to hang off an end.

    R

  9. Likes M.B. Naegle, JST, npolanosky liked this post
  10. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    1,978
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1289
    Likes (Received)
    836

    Default

    Having gone through this process 3-4 years ago when we built our new shop (we went through about 20 floor plans via Solidworks): personally I like having one or two master work bench's near tooling storage in a centralized location, and then using rolling carts and bench's around your machines. Keep your machines, lathe included, out in the middle of the room if you can. Doing so is an immense help when it comes time to clean up and it grants the most access to your machines for maintenance and tooling.

    Manual mills tend to keep your mind involved, but manual lathes have a tendency to give you lengths of time that you are just standing there waiting for a pass to end. Having the lathe against the wall can make it that much more monotonous, so having the lathe out in the open where you can see over the top of it is a mild morality booster.

  11. Likes thanvg liked this post
  12. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    1,978
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1289
    Likes (Received)
    836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by M.B. Naegle View Post
    Having gone through this process 3-4 years ago when we built our new shop (we went through about 20 floor plans via Solidworks): personally I like having one or two master work bench's near tooling storage in a centralized location, and then using rolling carts and bench's around your machines. Keep your machines, lathe included, out in the middle of the room if you can. Doing so is an immense help when it comes time to clean up and it grants the most access to your machines for maintenance and tooling.

    Manual mills tend to keep your mind involved, but manual lathes have a tendency to give you lengths of time that you are just standing there waiting for a pass to end. Having the lathe against the wall can make it that much more monotonous, so having the lathe out in the open where you can see over the top of it is a mild morality booster.
    s1c57na.jpgSomething like this.

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    139

    Default

    I've tried moving the machines around, put the mill in several positions, put the lathe on the opposite wall, also tried it 90 degrees out from the wall (though I like having a tool wall behind the lathe) but I'm having problems accepting the demands the layout makes of my space usage. I think it gives the machines too much elbow room for my small shop. Ideally I'd be able to dedicate that amount of space to them like that but I don't think it's really possible in the space I have.

    One of the things I don't want to move is the welding table near the big door, I tried but didn't like the idea of it on the other side next to the rolling benches, but next to the big door is a requirement. I have it in that corner now and like it.

    So after many attempts, I have tried it like this. Opposite sides, now there is room for the lathe. The small cabinet belongs to the lathe so it goes along with it.

  14. #10
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    13,411
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2157
    Likes (Received)
    3339

    Default

    Some random thoughts - It's common to place items in a shop at right angles and parallel, seems like most shops are that way. My shop has grown pretty full over the years, and I've found that placing machines at odd angles has allowed us to be way more productive. Also thinking in 3D helps a lot, like placing a bench or shelf at the head of a lathe allows you to slide a bar onto the spindle over the bench or between shelves, and building shelves over the ram of a mill generates storage space where there was none. Placing a mill at an angle to a wall makes it a lot easier to clean up around, and getting a lathe away from a wall makes it a lot easier to clean behind, or to get to the DRO scale if needed, etc. Cabinets on wheels are good, or on pallets to move with a pallet jack. Short/narrow pallet jacks work in crowded shops. Even angling a lathe so a bar can be put through a doorway if necessary can be handy. Air lines hanging from the ceiling with connectors just above head height are good, as are power cords hanging directly over workbenches. A mill back to back with a lathe works, makes both more accessable. I like having a bench right behind me when running a lathe, one of my lathes is positioned near a bandsaw so that the bandsaw table becomes a perfect height worksurface for the lathe operator. A friend has a small removable jeweler's vise on his bandsaw in his home shop and finds it the most used vise in his shop. Our shop has become sort of a 3D puzzle over the years, like the roller table for the cutoff saw is positioned under the chip conveyor of one turning center, there's no way to accomplish that right off it takes constant change and trying things as they occur to you. Rolling carts like this are priceless for tools and material and parts in progress and parts of machines being serviced.

  15. Likes M.B. Naegle, mountie liked this post
  16. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    17,807
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1767
    Likes (Received)
    2954

    Default

    Doing the same thing now at my personal shop, but I have to position 2 lathes, 2 mills, drill press, several pieces of grinding equipment, stock storage, bandsaw for stock, workbenches, an area for scraping, a QC and measurement area, an assembly area and an area and bench for basic woodworking, with a radial arm saw and belt sander.. And then places for tool and accessory storage, work in progress area, parts, etc. The area I have to fit it in is not well suited, but it's what I have to work with now. Anyhow, I'm in "shop layout mode"....... ready to think about it......

    Where is your grinding stuff going to be in this layout? I prefer to keep it far away from the lathes and mills, as well as assembly, QC and scraping. I'd want to put grinding way back by the dust collector, most likely, but there is an issue of sparks vs the fine dust that may escape from the dust collector. Woodworking also, that generates a lot of dust, even with the dust collecting.

    I'd consider interchanging the bandsaw and the table saw, putting the bandsaw against the same wall as the lathe. That could give you a lot of space for boards and runout on each side of the saw, but it could be a bit tight across that narrower area unless you move the bench/cabinet. Under the level of the saw table you can put cabinets for tools etc so they are under the area for board loading and runout, and maybe are a surface for that. That uses shop volume better, and yet does not obstruct long boards or panels to be ripped. Wall cabinets can go above that area also. Can you pull the saw out to do panels? Or are those back support arms permanent?

    You would probably want to have room to walk all around the woodworking worktable, maybe you can do that by hauling it out into a clear place, but then you may be a long way from the hand tools. Swapping the bandsaw and table saw could help get a clear area in front of the bandsaw. Having hand tools in a roll around work table is something I do not like, for one thing because they jump around when you move it, and also when you do any pounding or vigorous planing, etc, anything that shakes the table, so I;d want them probably at the end of the board/panel loading area for the saw..

    Yes, clear the area to the left of the lathe headstock, for feeding stock, and maybe set up something solid to keep it under control from whipping... Access to the back depends on what is back there. If the designers put the control cabinet back there, you will want access.

    I do not see wall cabinets or shelves.... I have wall cabinets and shelves all around, and still do not have enough. I just get suspicious when I see a clean, open shop layout, because I know there is stuff not being considered..... Maybe that is just MY shop, but I kinda doubt it .

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    139

    Default

    Grinding stuff... I already have it on a rolling cart, it will likely be rolled outside the shop in summer months, if that is impossible I prefer to use it in the woodworking section, I think it will sit next to the filing cabinets in the woodworking section. The big DC is for woodworking only, I have a shop vac to hook up to the metal grinders.

    The model of the table saw is not accurate, my table saw has a sliding table and I've had one side against a wall before but always had to move it. I have found I need space on the sides more than I need length for ripping, this position I have it in currently should mean plenty for both, and room to one side for the sliding table. The moving base I have for the table saw unfortunately interferes with any cabinets put under it.

    The rolling 600x1200mm carts I am replacing my fixed workbenches with though will be able to double as outfeed tables when needed. I will also mount a router lift in one of them. Not sure how many I will build, 2-3 perhaps.

    I have my woodworking bench against the wall now and a tool wall behind it, I like that setup and will continue with it, my bench (traditional scandinavian) is designed to be worked at from one side only anyway.

    I haven't designed shelves into the CAD since I don't know what they will turn out like. Their design will be dependent on where I place the machines. In my current layout I use a lot of tool walls and will probably keep on with that tradition. I believe I will add more shelves though than I currently have. But my walls are filled up, everything will have to be taken down and reorganized. Compromised be made.

    This is an older foto of my shop, but you can see the walls, filled up. I am thinking of buying shelves out of an old kitchen for more wall storage.


  18. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    139

    Default

    You are right about the lathe by the way, the gearbox is built into the stand and I think I need to open it up and check it out, oil levels and such. But it's only accessible from behind. That's a rare occurrence but having it 90 deg from the wall would help.

  19. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Country
    LATVIA
    Posts
    277
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    72
    Likes (Received)
    145

    Default

    this is what I would probably do:
    first thing, I have a pallet jack to move heavy things around, even moving something like a 1000x1500m heavy built table with content is very easy, in hindsight, I should have probably bought the short pallet jack, but the regular length jack has the benefit of being able to pick up even 1,5t lathe length wise when positioned under the headstock where the center of mass is
    this allows me to not worry much about having to leave access space to larger/heavier stuff and I can position them right next to a wall, if I have to access the back side, grab the pallet jack and pull the thing out, it is basically effortless, not all machines can be picked up that way, but making a frame out of heavy angle iron is easy enough, the larger lathe I did sit down on the floor, so that one is harder to move quickly, but it is not like you need to get back there every month, or year even
    the reason for moving woodworking stuff near the large door is the ease of access to the equipment when you bring raw materials in, you probably won't be moving large pieces of metal to be machined on that mill or the lathe, that is why they are moved to the other end of the shop, so the saw-dusty area (A) is furthest away from metalworking machines, the B area is cleaner, and the 2 piece sliding door (yellow) that you could move almost completely out of the way would separate the cleanest area of the shop, judging from the picture of that area there is more than enough room to position the FP2 in a corner, the reason being, the slides on the top make it impossible to back the base up against the wall, this is where the extra room at the corner comes in, and you can move the table to the right side to clear the corridor when not using the mill
    Positioning the sawing stuff in the A area also allows working with long pieces (thin green lines), not just wood, but metal as well, you can cut them there without worrying about the abrasive dust settling on metalworking machines, this is the reason I would also make all the tables same height
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails s1c57na-copy.jpg  

  20. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    139

    Default

    That is an interesting layout! Makes a lot of sense. I wonder though if the deckel will fit in that corner, perhaps the other corner, in real life it feels tight.

    One issue is what is not pictured in the CAD drawing and that is there is a concrete plate outside the big garage port, I use that for grinding in the summer months, and also for stick welding, this is why I made the design the way it was. I don't know, I suppose I can roll the machines around anyway. The cyclone will have to go to the other corner however, the garage port support structure on the inside won't allow it to go there.

    Where you have the sliding door I already have a wall and drapes so that might enough on it's own for now.

    I should also note I have another door in room B that I simply didn't bother putting in, I should put it in the CAD for completness sake.

    Interesting design though, I am intrigued with the idea of room B for welding and grinding. Though it would likely be that I would need to put some lumber storage high up on the walls in room B.

  21. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    139

    Default

    I tried it out, put the cyclone differently so it clears the garage port. Didn't bother moving the compressor, want to install permanent lines anyway so i can get compressed air elsewhere in the shop, though the current line is long enough to reach everywhere.

    I put the welding table in room B because I think of grinding and welding in one room, stick welding is smoky and splatters a lot as well, don't think of it as mixing with machining. I dunno I might roll the welder out for that anyway if I go with this. Put the welding table in the middle of the room, not sure about that.


  22. Likes M.B. Naegle liked this post
  23. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    17,807
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1767
    Likes (Received)
    2954

    Default

    The moving of lathe and mill seems good. I'g probably turn them 180 deg so mill is in top right corner and lathe on opposite wall.

    Also, there is the chance that welding and grinding (they go together) in the middle "room" might get both the wood and metal areas equally dusty! I'd be tempted to put it at one end. You know your needs better than we do, this might work best for you.

  24. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    174
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    44
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    How do you plan to operate the Deckle mill when it is stuffed into the corner like that? We have a small one in one of our shops. I've only ever played with it a little, but watching others use it, they quickly got pinched between the controls and the cabinets running along the wall to the right of the machine.

    Side note, that is a really cool mill! Definitely not as convenient for some things but it does certain jobs really well and fits in a restricted ceiling area easily.

  25. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    1,455
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    724

    Default

    I find scale cut-out paper-doll footprints on a grid of the floorplan are much easier to move around manually and visualize than CAD-models, and will often allow some unique visualizations that you won't get with CAD models because of the steps involved in moving/rotating stuff around in cad.

    Also, as mentioned, don't be constrained to orthogonal layouts, staggering machines at angles often works and allows access to more sides.

  26. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    17,807
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1767
    Likes (Received)
    2954

    Default

    Another thought....

    When you do layouts, to the machine model/cutout/whatever, ADD the required minimum operator clearance to the model, in front, and in back and at sides if applicable.

    Then when you place machines, in a one person shop, you can overlap the operator clearances of two machines, but you always show the minimum at least.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •