How can MasterCAM be so bad for as much as it costs?

ewlsey · Sep 14, 2010

*RANT*

I don't understand what people love about this program...

Small list of complaints:

The graphics are terrible, no way to see what edge you have selected, shaded parts look bad, seems heavily reliant on wire frame. When creating a WCS by geometry I have to re-zoom the model between each selection or the axis preview does not update.

The WCS are so frustrating. I can't seem to figure out how to make a tool path with a WCS, then edit the WCS. Or even copy the tool path to a new WCS. Also, the WCS never show up on the screen. The stock origin seems to follow the same convoluted logic as the WCS.

The CAD side of it is totally outdated. How do you sell a non-parametric CAD system in 2010?

The program puts out good code when you finally finish a program. The only other CAM experience I have is using Catia. That is what I learned with. Catia seems so much more mature, though it does have a breathtaking price.

Are all CAM systems this bad? Is it just me and my lack of understanding?

-Wes

bluechipper · Sep 14, 2010

I'm no expert, but you do sound like everyone else when they are learning a new system.

spope14 · Sep 14, 2010

There have been some graphics issues regarding the open GL regarding flat screens and some CRT displays. You may want to go under the configuration and I believce
"screen" and change to the other option. I have had to do this on all my 18 systems with this program every time, and I get very good clarity of edge selection.

MasterCam is NOT a CAD system, it is a CAM system. It imports well from other systems, and with a bit of learning is very good now in its solids package, comparable to Inventor in ease of use.

I use MasterCam and inventor on a daily basis, and transfer drawings between both, but to be fair, the learning curve has been high throughout.

ewlsey · Sep 14, 2010

Hmm...

Switched the graphics setting and edge selects are better, but shaded solids are strange now. It only shows shaded with edges, and the edges are green no matter what I tell it to make them.

I was spoiled by Catia, which has is an incredibly good CAD package with a great CAM package built in. I never had to transfer files, only open another menu. I'm using SolidWorks for CAD now.

Anyone know how to move tool paths to a new WCS after they have been created? Or, for that matter, even query a tool path to see what WCS it is using?

John Welden · Sep 14, 2010

I think what happens with these older CAM companies, like mastercam and surfcam, is that they get stuck with their old interfaces. Machinists get all pissed off if the interface changes much and they have to figure shit out again. They have there way of doing things and they don't want it screwed with. Classic conservative machinist BS.

I'm sure there are lots of factors as to why things aren't modernized. I'm only giving my opinion on one of them.

moldcore · Sep 15, 2010

ewlsey said:
*RANT*

I don't understand what people love about this program...

Small list of complaints:

The CAD side of it is totally outdated. How do you sell a non-parametric CAD system in 2010?

Are all CAM systems this bad? Is it just me and my lack of understanding?

-Wes

Probably both. You obviously haven’t used or seen Surfcam. Worst interface of them all.
How do you sell a non-parametric CAD program today? Easy, history is irrelevant when using the tools built into a good, intelligent CAD program.

degmc · Sep 15, 2010

Anyone know how to move tool paths to a new WCS after they have been created? Or, for that matter, even query a tool path to see what WCS it is using?

To move toolpaths to a new WCS, after you have already created a toolpath, open the operation parameters, click on planes, open the view manager under work coordinate system (WCS) and pick the new WCS from the view manager

Then click the right arrows to copy the new WCS to your tool plane and construction plane

We get asked so many questions about WCS that we posted a couple of free videos on the sample video page at eapprentice.net

Mastercam employees will usually tell you that graphics problems are related your video card, although I agree, even with the best card, Mastercam's graphics are not great.

ewlsey · Sep 15, 2010

moldcore said:
How do you sell a non-parametric CAD program today? Easy, history is irrelevant when using the tools built into a good, intelligent CAD program.

This might be true for simple fixture designs and prismatic shapes, but none parametric CAD is old school technology. Updates and shape changes are quick and easy with a history based CAD program.

After using Catia, I can really see the benefit of fully integrated CAD/CAM. What other options are out there that combine CAD and CAM in one environment? NX comes to mind, but that is just as pricey as Catia.

What about CAMWorks or solidCAM integrated into solidWorks, anyone tried those programs?

SeymourDumore · Sep 15, 2010

ewlsey said:
This might be true for simple fixture designs and prismatic shapes, but none parametric CAD is old school technology. Updates and shape changes are quick and easy with a history based CAD program.

I'd guess that really depends on what you do.
In most of my work, I would say that parametric is actually an obstacle rather than benefit.
Of course you can always leave your CAM file uncoupled from the model, but only if you're outside of an integrated CAM software.
That is my main reason not ever wanting to have my CAM sw running inside SW ( Or any other parametric modeler )

Just my $.02.

ewlsey · Sep 15, 2010

It is pretty easy to save you parametric model as .igs or parasolid to get rid of the design history. Many companies will do this for confidentiality reasons before sending out models for quotes.

TonyOW31 · Sep 15, 2010

ewlsey said:
What about CAMWorks or solidCAM integrated into solidWorks, anyone tried those programs?

I have just been through buying new cam software, after looking at a lot of the options available I bought Solidcam, not the cheapest around, but I'm very happy with it so far.

BOSTON · Sep 16, 2010

ewlsey said:
*RANT*
How do you sell a non-parametric CAD system in 2010?
-Wes

Did you buy Mastercad or Mastercam? Maybe you need to try Bobcad....

JMC · Sep 16, 2010

ewlsey said:
NX comes to mind, but that is just as pricey as Catia.

I think you would be surprised at the price of NX....it is more along the lines of Mastercam.

degmc · Sep 16, 2010

The new Mastercam for Solidworks is really good. You need to own a seat of Solidworks and purchase the Mastercam add-in

You work completely in the Solidworks interface, it doesn't support Lathe or 4th/5th Axis simultaneous yet, but:

The interface is great, fully parametric, the Mastercam component feels really lightweight, if you are doing typical 2D and 3D toolpaths and you need a CAM system to compliment SolidWorks, I would highly recommend MC4SW (I don't work for either company)

Bruce Griffing · Sep 16, 2010

I would evaluate VisualMill for Solidworks, given your interest in using history. VMFSW operates (like some others) from inside Solidworks.

Bob Looney · Oct 2, 2010

I have 20 years now with SmartCam and won't be changing. I do a little with Mastercam and understand the frustrations but it takes time to know where to click to do what you want. The same is true for any cam system. It all takes time.
The code coming out of the Mcam I see is pure crap. The table goes home every tool change, spindle stops between parts in drill cycle.

TonyOW31 · Oct 2, 2010

Bob Looney said:
The code coming out of the Mcam I see is pure crap. The table goes home every tool change, spindle stops between parts in drill cycle.

That's just a poor post tho' nothing to do with mastercam per se.

Steve Seebold · Oct 2, 2010

Ya shoulda bought GibbsCam.

I have been a GibbsCam user since 1999. When I decided to buy my software, I went to MasterCam, SurfCam, ThisCam, And ThatCam. I had the sales staff stand behind me and I did the drawing. I used the same drawing at all the demo's I went to.

GibbsCam took about 1/3 of the key strokes MasterCam or SurfCam required. The demo at MasterCam was almost 3 hours, while Gibbs was about 45 minutes, but at the end of the demo, I was ready to make a part with Gibbs.

Say what you will, but I can do anything in Gibbs that you can do in MasterCam, with 2/3 fewer keystrokes.

ewlsey · Oct 2, 2010

I've never used GibbsCAM. Espirit had a huge display at ITMS, but from the demo it seemed about as clunky as MasterCAM. MasterCAM feels like Catia V4, the clumsy old mainframe Unix system.

I really like Catia V5, but there is a comfort level there.

Having CAD and CAM integrated together is a huge positive in my opinion. It is great to be able to create sketches for contours, or put in clearance planes. Feature recognition is great too (auto select holes for drilling, etc.).

I will look into some of the integrated SolidWorks options.

-Wes

visionmeister · Oct 5, 2010

Interesting thread

My company is looking for a new CAM package, and we're having a MasterCam Demo later this morning.
We currently have Gibbs, but it's unusable because the key is missing and the Gibbs people are completely unhelpful. In order to get Gibbs running again, we have to basically purchase the Software & key all over from start.

Personally, I've used the "lower end" CAM packages for many years, and find it hard to justify the kind of $ that Gibbs and MC demand.

Anyone have any favorites out there in 3-4 axis mill and turn with c axis?
Front end being Pro-E.

How can MasterCAM be so bad for as much as it costs?

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