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  1. #121
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    Autodesk is a multinational corporation that has dominance in their dna. They will buy upstarts they think might compete or mid size with a bit of code they want- actually better than some ethics that just steal the code....
    They were king of the world for years with acad, which always sucked for drawing - and got worse after v13. Austodesk was starting to feel the switch to solidworks and tried everything - except come out with a usable cad program. To date they still suck at cad, which is irony. Not only is it anti intuitive the files have ghost and imperfections. Fusion was their answer for a ground up design with bits and parts of various software companies they bought. Still, the cad side of it is on par with sketchup at best- ms paint is better.
    I have no loyalty to autodesk, I do use grabcad for file conversions of 2020 dwgs - I was on it pre autodesk, and knock on wood they haven't mucked it up beyond confusion yet. I also am on fusion till at least november- They changed the cam terms with rapids for hobby users which made me pay up. I talked them down to 20 a month for the year. I have since demoed smartcam and bobcam - smartcam is the clear choice if I get rich by november. It makes fusion look like an ai designed luke warm buffet. That said, fusion is dirt cheap for a cam product and will only lower prices for the rest of them, if they can survive on lower margins or until they retire them to autodesks scrap heap.
    I am not sure why they got maya, which started their video/gaming/anime line. That is where their profit is now, cad/cam is the loss (less profit) leader to sell the gaming 'modeling' programs. Dreamworks is not going to budge on their price, and will be the leader for at least a while longer, followed by adobe.
    I still ache paying autodesk as I would prefer to support better and innovative or at least stable software. Cad I will not support them ever again. There is better cheaper faster stronger out there.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by memphisjed View Post
    I have since demoed smartcam and bobcam - smartcam is the clear choice if I get rich by november. It makes fusion look like an ai designed luke warm buffet.
    I'm interested in hearing your opinion of smartcam. I had it 20 years ago, thinking of trying it again.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    It would possibly be better if you didn't let your emotions overcome your pea brain. You've never even seen these programs, and gregor is getting his opinions off google.

    I've got Shake, Cinellera, Jaleo, Amazon Paint, Blender, Media Illusion, Elastic Reality, Matador, Power Animator, and some other stuff right here. On a slide-in bootable disk is Smoke (with a bunch of Twelve Girl Band video projects, if anyone wants them. And it's a slide-in because Discreet products aren't programs that "run in x operating system", they take over the entire computer). Here's a Smoke / Fire sample reel (definitely not mine !):

    Discreet (Autodesk) Smoke & Fire Reel 2004 - YouTube

    I've got an XT-DIGVID Dmedia3 and video breakout box on the Octane, now transferring everything back from the O350 setup. Have been playing with this crap since I had a Personal Video on an Indigo. Not a chance in hell I can do any of this stuff, but it's fun to mess around and hands-on is, imo, better than two minutes' time on google.

    People using this stuff for work was where I got my information. An Inferno could do in a couple hours what it took lesser (and cheaper) programs a whole day. The advantage was in dealing with massive amounts of uncompressed video in what they called 'realtime'. (It's not what I know as realtime but still ...) Inferno was the top of the heap for effects.

    That was a couple years ago. Now, looking at Autodick's site, there is no Inferno and according to Gregor here, Nuke (which used to be about-even competitor with Flame) is the go-to. He's probably correct, which means Autodicks did with Discreet exactly what they have done with all the other great software they have gobbled up - sucked the blood out of the product until it was a corpse.

    It's quite sad to see good programs subsumed and trashed by places like Autodesk. Anyone who has one of the good past cadcam programs that has been prostituted then shitcanned knows what I mean. Surfcam users, raise your hands !

    btw, if you act nice for a change, maybe I'll teach you how to touch off on a gear blank. After twenty years maybe it would be a good thing to learn ?
    you are one arrogant cocksucker, a little humility never hurt anyone.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    you are one arrogant cocksucker, a little humility never hurt anyone.
    Tell us how you really feel, LOL

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  6. #125
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    To the OP.
    Sounds like you are in a similar situation as me. Small operation on a budget and want to do a little more but need a decent cad/cam you can use / learn that's affordable. I am looking into the ezmill software. I think it would be very helpful for me and affordable. With that said I don't think it will do what some of these higher end software packages will do but would help a lot for a small operation.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    I'm interested in hearing your opinion of smartcam. I had it 20 years ago, thinking of trying it again.

    Smartcam was the first cad cam package I worked on when I got into this field.

  8. #127
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    I like Cadkey and early Mcam. (Gasp) Not seen anything it can't do with low effort and time.
    I know this the equivalent of standing up in a room of programmers now and saying I love Forth.
    Any CAD/CAM system that you know will be the one you like the best so asking opinions is so foolish.
    Bob

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  10. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    you are one arrogant cocksucker, a little humility never hurt anyone.
    Probly. But at least I've had my hands on the software. A little bit interesting maybe, after the first minute or so of flash is some exposition. You can see why this is expensive software, makes cadcam look like a toy.

    https://youtu.be/tT_67AazJEI

    The reason Inferno was even more expensive was, it could do this as the customer stood there and made suggestions or comments ... big for mtv or advertisements. Movies that kind of speed wasn't as important. Looks like Autodesk cut its throat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I know this the equivalent of standing up in a room of programmers now and saying I love Forth.
    Ah'll see yer forth and raise ya an apl/2

  11. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Tell us how you really feel, LOL
    it seems to me like you know how i feel

  12. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Probly. But at least I've had my hands on the software. A little bit interesting maybe, after the first minute or so of flash is some exposition. You can see why this is expensive software, makes cadcam look like a toy.

    https://youtu.be/tT_67AazJEI

    The reason Inferno was even more expensive was, it could do this as the customer stood there and made suggestions or comments ... big for mtv or advertisements. Movies that kind of speed wasn't as important. Looks like Autodesk cut its throat ?


    Ah'll see yer forth and raise ya an apl/2
    who in the fuck here cares about video software?

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  14. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    who in the fuck here cares about video software?
    I'm gonna guess that Canadian spammer/machinery dealer that's always posting links to youtube videos would care.....maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    If I could only have one software, NX would probably win. However, if we ignore the CAD, and I could only have one CAM software for everything, then Esprit (despite its issues) would easily win that battle. I'm still looking for that perfect software though - nobody has nailed it. Right now I've settled on Solidworks + hyperMILL. Both of those have plenty of issues, but the workflow is good for our environment.
    Mind if I ask how you settled on hyperMILL vs Esprit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    I'm interested in hearing your opinion of smartcam. I had it 20 years ago, thinking of trying it again.
    First, I am not a for profit machinist... Smartcam let me fiddle with the tool path to get it to look right for me- all the other other cams are smarter than me, but have these annoying sections of path that just bug me to no end. I am playing with 'complex' 3d shapes and the tool path is part of the sketch I am working with. for boring press dies, bobcam was fastest. Smartcam lets me design to process with flow. I am almost brave enough to try and machine forgings, which I need to trust my tool path and model so I do not eat tools or the forging (I can fix steel, but not really something I need more practice in). I like the ability to be picky, very picky on tool mark finish. Fusions completely arbitary lower z pisses me off to no end. sometimes model bottom is +03, sometimes -1/16 - It is set for iso rough then finish and no you are not allowed to mix the two. iso aint so.

    Smartcam ui is clear, with every operation getting a layer and color, layers are better than setups. They do not make a built in cad, which is sweet- no need to pre process thru a proprietary hack cad program to get cam program. I am not a professional machinist - I am a steel worker and still dabble in the arts to keep my brain from ending up like a steel workers... I could see using the bells and whistles to optimize your program to no end, even set in added sub programs to call your phone, run the co bot, and make coffee.. but no fun in that. Well maybe coffee.

    Milland is big on smartcam and can give the reasons it is good for making parts to print. Ultimately it was the best I demoed so far - coming from zero cam/milling experience but decent amounts of 3d modeling it was not head banging after only a few hours.

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  18. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by memphisjed View Post
    Smartcam let me fiddle with the tool path to get it to look right for me- all the other other cams are smarter than me, but have these annoying sections of path that just bug me to no end.
    That's been the beauty of Smartcam, after it lays toolpath in place, you can edit every little piece of it, and I miss that. Being forced to live with what other "more powerful" CAM systems produce is frustrating. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trochoidalpath View Post
    Mind if I ask how you settled on hyperMILL vs Esprit?
    We are heavily specialized in 5 axis milling, where Esprit was pretty weak vs other premium software. Every few months I blow the dust off the lathe, and then really wish I still had access to Esprit.

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  22. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    We are heavily specialized in 5 axis milling, where Esprit was pretty weak vs other premium software. Every few months I blow the dust off the lathe, and then really wish I still had access to Esprit.
    Yeah, I hear Esprit is awesome for mill-turn. If you weren't doing complex 5-axis stuff, would you have gone with Esprit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by trochoidalpath View Post
    Yeah, I hear Esprit is awesome for mill-turn. If you weren't doing complex 5-axis stuff, would you have gone with Esprit?
    Probably not. I would have wanted to get more into complex lathe work, which never seems to be profitable!

    I do think Esprit is the gold-standard for a program that can do everything though. I have searched everywhere, and have yet to find anything that handles millturns and multichannel as gracefully as Esprit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by memphisjed View Post
    I have since demoed smartcam and bobcam - smartcam is the clear choice if I get rich by november. It makes fusion look like an ai designed luke warm buffet.
    Hah! Well, as a Smartcam user myself, I hope you get rich by November

    I'd never call myself a "power user", but I've had a seat since the 90's, and been very happy with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    I'm interested in hearing your opinion of smartcam. I had it 20 years ago, thinking of trying it again.
    Get the demo! I'm not current (version 2015), but I may do that myself to see if I should update.

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    Start with Bobcad. It is affordable and easy to use. Then work up once you know what direction you are headed.


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