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It's Finally Time for CAD/CAM

twabscs

Aluminum
Joined
May 7, 2012
Location
NW Missouri
Hi All,

I run my own small shop and have been for about 12 years now. Currently have an Okuma mill (M560) and Okuma lathe (L250EM). Up to now I've done all the programming by hand. However, I'm starting to get more and more complex parts and while I like to program by hand, I can see how that will not work longer-term.

I did play with Fusion 360 maybe two years ago, but never really liked it. I've read through the various threads about Fusion and I really don't like how it stores my stuff in the cloud, etc.

For someone starting TODAY, from scratch, can you all recommend the best solution. Also, I'm better programming by hand on the lathe, so the initial work would be mostly for the MILL work.

Thanks!
 
For someone starting TODAY, from scratch, can you all recommend the best solution. Also, I'm better programming by hand on the lathe, so the initial work would be mostly for the MILL work.

My advise is to pick something you are most likely to get help with, either a nearby shop that is willing to help you along, or online tutorials, or something like that. Most folks will tell you that whatever they use (and likely have been using for a few years) is easy, since they already went through the steep part of the learning curve. I'm pretty proficient with MasterCAM, but it took awhile, and I had the benefit of someone hand-holding me through the first few projects. If I had had to pick it up myself from scratch, I think I would have been really frustrated.

Regards.

Mike
 
These guys make the CAM software I've been using for milling for ages:

http://www.smartcamcnc.com/

While not the most common, I've like the way it allows almost endless editing of geometry and code generation, as a person who started as a manual machinist I really like the control over the output.

They offer trials and now there's also a monthly leasing option, so you don't have to commit or lay out a large amount of $$$ at once.
 
What type of parts are you making in your mill? And are you 3D profiling? Or just more complex 2D shapes that make hand programming a pain?
I'd have Mastercam give you a basic quote for their entry Mill package. I think it's less than $4-5k???
On the Okuma lathes as you probably already know, using the IGF will get you 99.99% of any lathe part you desire. We have 10 lathes and I only have to give them a program for some complex groove maybe once every 2 years or so, meaning you probably wouldn't need the lathe package of Mastercam.
 
I have used most of the major CAM systems except Esprit and NX. I was school trained on MasterCAM, vendor trained for CAMWorks and GibbsCAM. The other systems have been OTJ for : SurfCAM, Geopath, BobCAD, OneCNC, HSMWorks (and variants), Fusion, DelCAM.
I really like GibbsCAM. One system for Mill, Lathe, Mill/Turn, Swiss, and EDM. I can read in all the different CAD models and create my own solid models (used mostly for fixturing). Excellent choices for machining strategies and feature recognition.
Following, I would suggest GibbsCAM.

Chazsani

Sent from my G-Code editor @ 300kbs
 
I would suggest to get Solidworks CAM, you will get power of Solidworks and basic CAM which will be enough for basic 2D and some 3D milling. Later on you could add more powerful CAM system such as SolidCam into your Solidworks if needed.
 
And you would get the opportunity to pay maintenance every year to have the CAM portion function.

Can’t say about CAM in Solidworks, but 100% sure if you don’t pay for maintenance you just cannot upgrade but you can use it
 
I wouldn’t suggest Mastercam now. Every next release has more bags. The whole system is not stable anymore. The NC has more options than needed for basic programming. Because of these options it takes to much time than in other CAM systems. Sketching newer was intuitive in Mastercam and way more stupid to compare with Solidworks.
 
Hi All,

I run my own small shop and have been for about 12 years now. Currently have an Okuma mill (M560) and Okuma lathe (L250EM). Up to now I've done all the programming by hand. However, I'm starting to get more and more complex parts and while I like to program by hand, I can see how that will not work longer-term.

I did play with Fusion 360 maybe two years ago, but never really liked it. I've read through the various threads about Fusion and I really don't like how it stores my stuff in the cloud, etc.

For someone starting TODAY, from scratch, can you all recommend the best solution. Also, I'm better programming by hand on the lathe, so the initial work would be mostly for the MILL work.

Thanks!



You asked for advice.....you will get plenty on this topic. I am not gonna tell you what system to buy.....what i will tell you is what I did when I was given the task of choosing a CAM system to be used across a variety of machines.
First thing was to figure out as best I could what current and future equipment I might want to program with it.
Lay out what factors are important.....for me....we have multiple users...what experience already exist'. What systems offer training and where is that training. Who has a local footprint...because if i am in a serious pickle the last thing i want is to need to contact someone on the other side of the world.
I made a list and researched online....basically looked at some websites and eliminated the ones that would obviously not fit the bill.
After narrowing the list to the top 3 or 4 contenders I set up meetings with each of them to come in and demo what they had.....including programming a part or 2. As I recall I was able to get all but 1 of them to actually come in....the other one gave an online demo.

I am not saying dont get advice here.....just be aware....everyone has their favorite......and their least favorite. But they may not value the same thing from a system that you do.
 
If you are not on maintenance, the base level CAM will not work.

Sent from my G-Code editor @ 300kbs

I just went through this. My machines only support my drag race hobby.

An annual subscription was a deal breaker for me. AutoDesk (Fusion 360) can go pound sand. I ended up with Solidworks Pro and CAMWorks Cam Standard. And yes - to get the "free" CAM with Solidworks, you have to pay an annual subscription fee ($1500 for the Solidworks Pro) so for an additional $2800 I bought CAMWorks outright and am no longer tied to any annual subscriptions. I understand that the CAMWorks CAM is the same CAM as in Solidworks.

I am now just getting the software up and running.
 
When it comes to this use case, the arguments against Fusion are just nonsensical old codger tin-foil hat bullshit. Why? Because every option besides Fusion is:

1- Going to cost significantly more. SW + Basic Mastercam will cost the same as a decade of Fusion, and that is if you're happy running 3-4-5-10 year old software and never pay a dime in maintenance.

2- Are going to be significantly less capable. My statement above is for the most bare-bones SW and MC seats. With Fusion, you're getting a boatload of very advanced tools (milling, turning, 5 axis, CAD, drawings, etc), that are all in active development and support.

The other factor going on in the longer run is that the market has spoken and Fusion is just killing all the lower-cost (Gibs, Bobcat, Sprutcam) style options. I cannot imagine their accountants have a lot of good news to give them, and it is going to be almost impossible for them to do R&D on the level of Autodesk, so their tools are going to get further and further behind. Judging from the constant offers begging me to get back on SW maintenance, and deals from the local MasterCAM outfit on offer - even those guys are hurting right now because Fusion is sucking the low-mid levels of the market dry.

You can keep all your super secret files offline with Fusion, so that whole "Security" thing is really not that big a deal. As far as subscription goes, it is $500/year... probably less than a month of power, and if you don't pay that, your business is just as screwed. It is an illogical argument for the vast majority of use cases.

So yea, get Fusion. It is cheap. You'll learn it fast. You'll unlock a boatload of capability in those nice machines you've got. You'll make way more money and the ROI puts everything other option on the table to shame.
 
have an Okuma mill (M560) and Okuma lathe (L250EM)

A nice mill/lathe combo, now adding software sound like you may be growing, which eventually will lead to new employees and new customers. Fusion will limit your customers due to itar regulations so no need to paint yourself into a corner there. New employees...good ones are hard to find. Good ones also don't want to work on shitty machines and budget software. Your machines are good, don't throw away that bit of enticement with a crappy CAM package no one wants to work with.

Mastercam is great and it will be easy to find employees who not only know how to use it but also want to work with it. #1 CAM software package has advantages no others do.
Esprit is great as well. Might be tougher to find experienced machinists though.

If you're not worried about finding trained machinists I'd go with Esprit. If you want to future proof yourself re employees, I'd go Mastercam.
 
What talent is doing the development and support is a forum. If I am at home “playing” machine shop, maybe Fusion. If I am in it for the money, I am getting GibbsCAM.

Chazsani


Sent using CIMCO Edit DNC

As a 30+ year GibbsCAM user I will second what Chazsani has to say. You may have a small learning curve with geometry creation but the rest of the Interface is pretty straight forward. Gibbs also has great tutorials and there is Tons of youtube resources as well.

Also you can buy what you need as you grow. If you just need Mill, buy the Mill module. If later you find you have the need for surfacing you can add the advanced mill and solid surfacer module. Later on you want the Lathe package, you can add It. You don't have to buy It all at once.
 
I also wonder if at some point there's going to be an anti-trust action against Autodesk. Given their near-predatory (dumping?) use of Fusion to draw away people from other software.

At some point either the field will consolidate enough to get the attention of the Justice Department, or they'll attain an effective monopoly and be able to start jacking the pricing up, with limited options for those tied to the software.
 








 
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