Looking for smartphone app to determine hole size with 3 gauge pins... - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Most that own a gauge pin set do not have two of the same size, so three different sizes getting stuffed in.
    I have many 81 piece block sets but few pin sets.
    Bob

  2. #22
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    Why not use one of the MANY apps that will calculate bullet hole groups down to the thousandths of an inch? Some of them have had their results verified by laser. First one I saw I called bull, a buddy brought me the paper, and I measure it as close as I could, it’s was ok within a few thousandths. Not bad for a free app.

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    Seems alot of work for what a bore gage set and or a telescoping set will do.
    Dont get me wrong, good idea for an app, but good luck "selling" that measurement to a customer

  4. #24
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    Resurrecting this thread to mention that I have a working prototype of a calculator for this up at holecalc.com

    It's not a proper downloadable app, but it should look decent on both mobile and desktop browsers. If you need quick access you can add it to your phone's home screen as a button. I tried to include a basic guide for best practices when doing this kind of measurement, but I'm not a metrology expert so I'm sure it could be improved.

    This was a fun project for boring quarantine weekends, got to try out some new technologies and brush up on some web design skills.

    Let me know if you encounter any bugs or have any suggestions!

    Also, I would eventually like to add the capability to actually draw the relative gage and bore diameters along with the results. Unfortunately, it's a little beyond my geometry skills to figure out the correct formula to determine the relative positions of all three gage pin centers. If that sounds doable to any geometry whiz on here, I'd definitely appreciate any ideas!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    An arbor press will do it.

    I heard about a guy who sanded down the gauge pin to fit. Boss told him to make sure the gauge pin fit each part!
    So I was reading this while at work, and laughed out loud in the office..... Then all of the Engineering Dept. laughed

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  7. #26
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    Webber used to make gage blocks specifically for checking inside diameters. they have a 0.25 radius lapped on them, so when you wring a pair of them together you get a very precise 1/2" diameter. if you want to check a bigger diameter, you just put the appropriate size gageblock(s) in between them. I have a few of them and they are my go to for checking bore sizes. The only downside is they only reach about a half inch deep.

    I looked on the starret website and but I don't see them on there.


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  9. #27
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    If anyone is still pondering this, the circle around three circles thing is called the Soddy Circle.
    See the r4 equation here:
    Soddy Circles -- from Wolfram MathWorld
    We want the negative solution. I wanted to make a spreadsheet to find the closest 3 consecutive pins in my set to measure a hole.

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  11. #28
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  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer120x View Post
    If anyone is still pondering this, the circle around three circles thing is called the Soddy Circle.
    See the r4 equation here:
    Soddy Circles -- from Wolfram MathWorld
    We want the negative solution. I wanted to make a spreadsheet to find the closest 3 consecutive pins in my set to measure a hole.
    And TIL a new term AND equation. Thanks for that.

  13. #30
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    I just realized that I don't need any of the combinations below 1.000 with my .011-1.000 set. But, maybe somebody with a more limited set could find it useful.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonbl View Post
    Resurrecting this thread to mention that I have a working prototype of a calculator for this up at holecalc.com

    It's not a proper downloadable app, but it should look decent on both mobile and desktop browsers. If you need quick access you can add it to your phone's home screen as a button. I tried to include a basic guide for best practices when doing this kind of measurement, but I'm not a metrology expert so I'm sure it could be improved.

    This was a fun project for boring quarantine weekends, got to try out some new technologies and brush up on some web design skills.

    Let me know if you encounter any bugs or have any suggestions!

    Also, I would eventually like to add the capability to actually draw the relative gage and bore diameters along with the results. Unfortunately, it's a little beyond my geometry skills to figure out the correct formula to determine the relative positions of all three gage pin centers. If that sounds doable to any geometry whiz on here, I'd definitely appreciate any ideas!
    Since this thread was bumped, just wanted to mention I have added a couple things to this, including a calculator for a "reverse" operation of determining the size of the third pin from two given pin diameter and a bore diameter. There's also a simple gage pin tolerance calculator, which can be found in innumerable other online calculators and charts but already I had to build out the math for the main calculator and it might be useful to have at hand anyway.

    Still trying to figure out the geometry to locate the pin centers so I can programmatically draw them. If we look at the Soddy circles diagram linked by Archer120x, the problem can be described as determining the coordinates of points A, B, and C relative to point S', which we can say is at (0, 0). To start, we fix the position of point B at (0, rS' - rB). The next step is to determine the coordinates of A and C, at which point I'm off in the weeds. Any thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonbl View Post
    Still trying to figure out the geometry to locate the pin centers so I can programmatically draw them.
    I think the answer to locations is here:
    https://forumgeom.fau.edu/FG2007volume7/FG200726.pdf
    Some terms in there I haven't seen before..

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  17. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonbl View Post
    Still trying to figure out the geometry to locate the pin centers so I can programmatically draw them. If we look at the Soddy circles diagram linked by Archer120x, the problem can be described as determining the coordinates of points A, B, and C relative to point S', which we can say is at (0, 0). To start, we fix the position of point B at (0, rS' - rB). The next step is to determine the coordinates of A and C, at which point I'm off in the weeds. Any thoughts?
    I started doing this in R way back when you first put your spreadsheet here a while ago. The way to go is to just decide where the first one will be. The simplest way is to decide for example that it will be tangent to the bottom most point of the large circle. Or to the rightmost point, it doesn't matter. That's easy to do, no computations there.

    Then you decide that the second circle will be say to the left of the first one if you put the first one at the bottom. Now, you have to do a little bit of computations, but it is still pretty straightforward.

    Placing the last circle is a bit more difficult, because now, you have two possibilities. It could be squished lower than the two circles already there, or it could be on top/ above them.

    I don't think it's that hard to solve, but at the time, I was doing this directly on my phone and in my head. I assume if I had tried a bit harder with a few sketches with pen and paper, the answer would have popped up.


    I might get back to it soon if free time permits.

    Jacques

  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    I started doing this in R way back when you first put your spreadsheet here a while ago. The way to go is to just decide where the first one will be. The simplest way is to decide for example that it will be tangent to the bottom most point of the large circle. Or to the rightmost point, it doesn't matter. That's easy to do, no computations there.

    Then you decide that the second circle will be say to the left of the first one if you put the first one at the bottom. Now, you have to do a little bit of computations, but it is still pretty straightforward.

    Placing the last circle is a bit more difficult, because now, you have two possibilities. It could be squished lower than the two circles already there, or it could be on top/ above them.

    I don't think it's that hard to solve, but at the time, I was doing this directly on my phone and in my head. I assume if I had tried a bit harder with a few sketches with pen and paper, the answer would have popped up.


    I might get back to it soon if free time permits.

    Jacques
    I'd be very interested if you pursue the geometry problem further. I followed the method you describe (setting the center of one circle relative to the large circle), but the next step of calculating the remaining two circle center positions still eludes me, even after spending some time working it out on paper and searching the internet for solutions. I do agree that it seems like there may be an obvious answer, but I haven't found it yet.

    Cool that you're working it out in R, I used to program in that language about 10 years ago. If you end up implementing a solution for the center position problem in R, I'd love to see the code as I could probably muddle through it and re-implement it in python for the web app I made.

    Also, I can't take credit for making the spreadsheet, that was forum users "Buttpoop" and "Archer120x"


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