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  1. #1
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    Default Mastercam Rep Stopping by Tuesday.

    I downloaded the demo from Titan and got an email a few days later from the local rep and he will be stopping in this week.

    I have no cnc yet so I will be asking a lot of questions regarding pricing for what I actually need and nothing more.

    The few emails I sent back and forth was pretty positive. I told him I do not like the cloud and do not like subscriptions. I want to buy something and not pay anything extra yearly or get locked out of it for any reason. He said I can buy it and not pay maintenance or be forced to upgrade as long as I dont need to.

    I have always heard good things from them over the years. Some other not so much. Autodesk I am trying to stay away from.

    Its looking more and more like my first cnc will be a mill with 4th axis and not a lathe. I have a feeling the software price will be high for this but it probably wont be so bad.


    Anyone have any advice or any questions I should ask? I need a new computer for sure. I get freezed up a lot when messing around with CAD/CAM stuff so I dont get very far when learning these softwares.

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    As someone who just got into the cam game a year or two ago, I stand by my decision to NOT spend an absurd amount of money for a program when fusion can do all I need right now. Mastercam is good from what I'm told. I'm also told it is the least intuitive software to learn. They make it that way to push people to pay for their expensive classes.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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    You are just starting? Unless you are made of money, Fusion at $495 for a year should get you started.
    Mastercam is like $20k.

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    I totally get not wanting subscription crap and personally I think its a smart decision to learn on a higher end program you are more likely to stick with. That said, there are several other players in that price range I would look into also.

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    look into hypermill. way better and about the same price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirAIG View Post
    As someone who just got into the cam game a year or two ago, I stand by my decision to NOT spend an absurd amount of money for a program when fusion can do all I need right now. Mastercam is good from what I'm told. I'm also told it is the least intuitive software to learn. They make it that way to push people to pay for their expensive classes.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Not sure where you heard that? When I first started using around 2005, I took it home and had a couple 3d programs (surfacing) ready to run Monday morning. Yes, they weren't great, but I got parts made...

    I think MCX has some of the best help there is, or used to, haven't used the newer stuff...

    Click help button and you get pictures and explanations for all the options on the page/toolpath you are looking at. Very easy to define custom tools too.

    OP, price will probably be high, depending on what you are looking/prepared to spend. That said, I am using X6 which is pretty old and it is still working and making programs everyday, so if you do buy, I can't foresee any reason you would need to upgrade unless you got into 5 axis or millturn stuff. However, if you did want to upgrade a few years down the line they make you pay back maintenance. That happened to us, we ended up getting a break from full price maint, but still had to get on maintenance to get the upgrade we needed. But you don't need to stay on it so it's a little bit of a gamble, pay $1500/year (don't know exact amount) each year, or pay $4000 (for eaxample) after a few years off maintenance...

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    Fusion is a no go. Its not allowed due to the cloud.

    Some of you guys are making this seem expensive. I know it can be but for what I would need it for it wasnt very expensive at all. If I buy other machines later on that would need upgraded software I would write that cost into the price of the machine.

    I want to buy a software that will work on the machine I purchase for as long as the machine is in my shop. The rep said that is not a problem and I will not come into any recurring costs unless I want to upgrade in the future.

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    When the rep comes, ask about getting a post processor for your machine with 4th axis. I know you don't have one yet, but make sure you understand what it takes to get a post from them to get your machine working as best you can. According to our local MC dealer/reseller when you buy, they will give you a post within the 1st year (if you don't pay maintenance the next year). This may not include 4th and 5th axis or live tooled lathes etc. This is not a huge hurdle, but you will want to be aware of it.

    My advice is to buy a new PC to run it on, don't hook it up to the internet and you will not have any trouble for a very long time.

    Also, if you do buy, I suggest negotiating 1-3 days of classroom training into the package. Yes, it is days out of the shop, but you can/should be able to focus on the program and learn it many times quicker than in your shop with everyone hassling you. You spend alot of money to get the software, get some training with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    Fusion is a no go. Its not allowed due to the cloud.

    Some of you guys are making this seem expensive. I know it can be but for what I would need it for it wasnt very expensive at all. If I buy other machines later on that would need upgraded software I would write that cost into the price of the machine.

    I want to buy a software that will work on the machine I purchase for as long as the machine is in my shop. The rep said that is not a problem and I will not come into any recurring costs unless I want to upgrade in the future.
    I guess I am thinking a "full" package like what we have, 4 axis mill, 4 axis wire, lathe. Maybe it's not bad with just the mill support?

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    look into hypermill. way better and about the same price.

    Do NOT get Hypermill yet. You are just starting out. Hypermill does not have intuitive geometry creation.It's got a higher learning curve than Mastercam. Mastercam is probably the best geometry creation of the high end CAM systems. Solids, surfaces, wireframe, all fully featured. Even detailing. It has even retained most of the toolpaths and geometry creation from much earlier versions because they work still for a lot of people

    And this comment from sirAIG is absolute rubbish. " Mastercam is good from what I'm told. I'm also told it is the least intuitive software to learn. They make it that way to push people to pay for their expensive classes." All I will say is investigate, ask questions, make them show you how you do the things you want to do. Mastercam can pretty much do it all but you will never use it all. Find the things that will work for you and your operation

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    Fusion is a no go. Its not allowed due to the cloud.

    Some of you guys are making this seem expensive. I know it can be but for what I would need it for it wasnt very expensive at all. If I buy other machines later on that would need upgraded software I would write that cost into the price of the machine.

    I want to buy a software that will work on the machine I purchase for as long as the machine is in my shop. The rep said that is not a problem and I will not come into any recurring costs unless I want to upgrade in the future.
    I'm curious to see how expensive it's going to be. The only time I ever saw what a company paid for it was back when 2017 first came out. One seat of mill level 1 (only single surfaces) and one seat of lathe - total was right around $18k if I remember correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodgin View Post
    I'm curious to see how expensive it's going to be. The only time I ever saw what a company paid for it was back when 2017 first came out. One seat of mill level 1 (only single surfaces) and one seat of lathe - total was right around $18k if I remember correctly.
    Obviously they are going to try and get as much as they can, especially if it is through a reseller. But after recently shopping for CAM it appears most professional products were mid to high teens for 3D 3axis mill and 2 axis turning. Some start out asking more but it seems at the end of the day they will all come down to around the same price. They all tend to get more flexible when you tell them you are the actual person that will be writing the check and that you are shopping around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LockNut View Post
    Do NOT get Hypermill yet. You are just starting out. Hypermill does not have intuitive geometry creation.It's got a higher learning curve than Mastercam. Mastercam is probably the best geometry creation of the high end CAM systems. Solids, surfaces, wireframe, all fully featured. Even detailing. It has even retained most of the toolpaths and geometry creation from much earlier versions because they work still for a lot of people

    And this comment from sirAIG is absolute rubbish. " Mastercam is good from what I'm told. I'm also told it is the least intuitive software to learn. They make it that way to push people to pay for their expensive classes." All I will say is investigate, ask questions, make them show you how you do the things you want to do. Mastercam can pretty much do it all but you will never use it all. Find the things that will work for you and your operation
    i'll agree to disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver View Post
    When the rep comes, ask about getting a post processor for your machine with 4th axis. I know you don't have one yet, but make sure you understand what it takes to get a post from them to get your machine working as best you can. According to our local MC dealer/reseller when you buy, they will give you a post within the 1st year (if you don't pay maintenance the next year). This may not include 4th and 5th axis or live tooled lathes etc. This is not a huge hurdle, but you will want to be aware of it.

    My advice is to buy a new PC to run it on, don't hook it up to the internet and you will not have any trouble for a very long time.

    Also, if you do buy, I suggest negotiating 1-3 days of classroom training into the package. Yes, it is days out of the shop, but you can/should be able to focus on the program and learn it many times quicker than in your shop with everyone hassling you. You spend alot of money to get the software, get some training with it.
    This is exactly what I want to do. I know my computer is way to slow with just the min requirements to run the software. I dont know much about post processors or what it takes to get one dialed in correctly. I have no idea what kind of time it takes to write one up. I know the Integrex machines have very big Posts that not everyone makes cause of the complexity.

    I will make sure to ask of this as well. The 4th axis may not be right away but added later. Its good to know about preparing myself for the software upgrades as I go along.

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    I had some numbers in my head which I cannot remember which software it was but I thought it was mastercam. 3 axis mill was like 7500, 2 axis lathe was like 2500, etc.

    It seemed like every upgrade besides lathe was 3500-7500. I can see how it can add up fast. I wont need 2 axis lathe for any reason.

    I remember Solidworks was 4000 and the CAM software I had numbers for would bring the total to around 15k with SW included.

    Anyways these are old numbers that I may not be remembering correctly anyway. I like the idea of getting a computer with the software and leaving it offline. As long as I get enough CAM to do what the machine will need to do I will be happy.

    If I buy a machine and say to myself I will sell it in 7 years no matter what. I would want to know the software I buy will get me there without additional expenses. I can always upgrade the software when I get another machine that will need additional capabilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    I had some numbers in my head which I cannot remember which software it was but I thought it was mastercam. 3 axis mill was like 7500, 2 axis lathe was like 2500, etc.

    It seemed like every upgrade besides lathe was 3500-7500. I can see how it can add up fast. I wont need 2 axis lathe for any reason.

    I remember Solidworks was 4000 and the CAM software I had numbers for would bring the total to around 15k with SW included.

    Anyways these are old numbers that I may not be remembering correctly anyway. I like the idea of getting a computer with the software and leaving it offline. As long as I get enough CAM to do what the machine will need to do I will be happy.

    If I buy a machine and say to myself I will sell it in 7 years no matter what. I would want to know the software I buy will get me there without additional expenses. I can always upgrade the software when I get another machine that will need additional capabilities.
    we paid right around 10k for basic 3 axis MC last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    we paid right around 10k for basic 3 axis MC last year.
    I've never used Mastercam but a friend of mine uses it and he told me you can't get posts from MC and that the posts come from third parties.....is that true? The post he has for a couple 5 axis DMGs is awful and requires hours of hand edits. The 3 axis VMC post and 4 axis horizontal post work fine. I wouldn't work like that for more than a day or two but hes been doing it for a couple years

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    I've never used Mastercam but a friend of mine uses it and he told me you can't get posts from MC and that the posts come from third parties.....is that true? The post he has for a couple 5 axis DMGs is awful and requires hours of hand edits. The 3 axis VMC post and 4 axis horizontal post work fine. I wouldn't work like that for more than a day or two but hes been doing it for a couple years
    The most reliable posts come from In-House Solutions and Postability. If he got the DMG posts from either of those two places they'd likely be bulletproof.

    I'm guessing his post modifications are done by his reseller. In my experience, they're less than stellar (depends majorly on the reseller). Biggest reason I started doing my own.

    If things haven't changed that much purchasing Mastercam should yield a handful of good posts - MPMaster, Generic Fanuc 3x & 4x Mill, Generic Lathe 2x & 3x. These are pretty close out of the box and any changes that need to be made are typically pretty straight-forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    I've never used Mastercam but a friend of mine uses it and he told me you can't get posts from MC and that the posts come from third parties.....is that true? The post he has for a couple 5 axis DMGs is awful and requires hours of hand edits. The 3 axis VMC post and 4 axis horizontal post work fine. I wouldn't work like that for more than a day or two but hes been doing it for a couple years
    i do believe thats the case. i'm far from a fan of MC, to say the least.

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    This has been my experience with MasterCam, ymmv..

    We got a 5 axis router at my old job in app 2004. Was talked into MC to program it. We got a very sweet post from the MTB. The tech came and set up the machine and then also made sure we were up a running with MC as well.

    Another router we already had was a multihead machine and did things a little different. We got an awesome post from In House Solutions. It was right at $1,000 or under. There was never any need to to do any editing after I posted code. It worked flawlessly. The post that the MTB gave us with the 5 axis was the same way. I never had any extra to do.

    I am now consulting with a shop since Jan and they are using MC 2017. They bought an uncommon router and don't want to pay to have a post made up for it so I am using the generic 3axis Fanuc post. It only requires a minute or less per program to hand edit. I hope to get them to buy a post, but it is not a high priority yet.

    The reseller came by this Spring and we talked about the post. If we were to go on maintenance their post guru would make us a post for no extra cost.

    I also asked how much for a seat of Mill and he told me $6,700. I didn't think to ask if that was full 3D.

    Back to training, when we got the 5 axis I was able to go to the basic intro training. It helped, but at that time I didn't know enough to really get good value from the class. A good while later I had enough experience that when I did some advanced multi axis training it was well worth it.

    There are a good amount of resources out there for MC to get your operation running very smoothly and efficiently, most people don't want to take the time to do it though. If you are buying a new machine that is fairly common, then I'd bet the MTB or your reseller has a post and customers that are using your exact combo and can help you.

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