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Not another CAM Software decision...

OTBox

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 15, 2005
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Folks, I need help:
I am a small shop doing industrial automation. Right now I use Alibre, Surfcam 2 axis (2009 was last update), and Autocad LT 2021 in my design tool chain. Maintaining changes and updating drawings is just a nightmare at this point. Something's gotta give.

Most of what I do is 2 axis stuff - no 3D surfaces. Lots of drilling, reaming, etc on my two older Haas VF machines. Really looking forward to thread milling and chamfering to reduce secondary work.

Taking 3D models into Surfcam 2009 is just a nightmare. Its all wire frame and its pretty easy to screw up drawings by popping the top off of something I think should be a solid - and I did this on a Surfcam 2018 version. While I love the latest Autocad LT, I only use it to supply drawings to Surfcam.

About 30% of my customers are ITAR folks so clound based systems... frankly I dont have the expertise to sufficiently judge if they are secure or not. If I can yank the ethernet cable from the PC and do my work, I regard it as secure!

The choices:
OneCNC - tried a goofy part and the folks at OneCNC talked me through it. I am looking at 2 axis express mill. It will have a learning curve but everything will. My test part was able to be run through with help from an excellent support person. But if there is associativity with Alibre, I am not aware of it. Would another version be better?
Mastercam mill - I think this does have associativity with solidworks but not alibre. I would need to pick up a seat of solidworks and now the cost would spiral through the roof. I was also a little bothered by the process to collect pluge versus depth versus clearance height data. I kind of felt it was too easy to screw up and bury the spindle!
SolidCAM - the folks at SolidCAM can provide a Solidworks package with SolidCAM. The Solidworks Parts and Assemblies version plus Solidcam 2.5Axis could do most of what I need. If I were to add iMachining that strains things as far as cost goes. Again the sample parts and the folks who walked me through things were good people.

For me this is a crazy huge investment and I know I need to make it. Given my kind of work, does anybody have input on how usable the SolidCAM 2.5 axis package is? With all the iMachining hype I feel like 2.5 might be the crazy uncle under the stairs. Lots of folks seem to like OneCNC but I am so sick and tired of updating three sets of drawings.
 
I use PoweStation from Microcimm. Great software at a great price. Importing CAD files no problem and you can write your own posts! Check it out and tell them I sent you, I've been running it since the 80s.
 
frankly I dont have the expertise to sufficiently judge if they are secure or not. If I can yank the ethernet cable from the PC and do my work, I regard it as secure!

Cloud is not secure to ITAR standards. Get more knowledgeable advice than mine if you have to drill deeper here.

What I can say for sure is that yanking the Ethernet cable is only secure IF YOU NEVER REATTACH IT. Plenty of malware will store data and then burst it to whichever server it's targeted to when back online.

If you need true computer security it sounds like you should get a pro to help you set it up, otherwise an audit from a customer may burn you.
 
I am not claiming to be ITAR myself and I am very clear about this to my customers. I probably couldn't afford it! But I still want to handle any part drawing my customer sends me with due diligence. I make adhesive and coating systems and so I pretty much only get bare bones info anyway. With my systems its pretty easy to do a mock up part that will confirm system performance without ever getting to an actual component.
I bring up the ITAR thing because I do not believe the Fusion360 route is a good one for me.

But thanks for confirming the issues!
 
I did try the Mecsoft product. If I recall, each tool had to be specifically defined from scratch. There were no tool libraries? In Surfcam for example I had robust tool libraries and the speeds and feeds would instantly populate given the material I was machining and the tool I was using. For me this is an issue because it involves retyping info whenever a new tool is defined - not exactly the best practice when it comes to error proofing. That aspect of Surfcam worked pretty well - not perfect but definitely workable.

Their tech support folks helped me with rotating my part which was a little awkward but only probably due to my inexperience with the software.

I probably need to view the YouTube videos again but the process... I just didnt get it, unlike several of the other products I looked at.
 
I did try various formats - STP and SAT (ACIS). I think in the distant past I tried with IGES. But yes, when you import it, you can accidentally move faces and find yourself looking inside what you thought was a single piece solid.
So I ave a test part I designed in Alibre. I imported it as a STP file. I then wanted to move the part to the work origin so I clicked on a surface of the part. I then moved it, but only the top surface got moved and I suddenly found myself looking inside the solid like popping the top off of a can.
 
I did try various formats - STP and SAT (ACIS). I think in the distant past I tried with IGES. But yes, when you import it, you can accidentally move faces and find yourself looking inside what you thought was a single piece solid.
So I ave a test part I designed in Alibre. I imported it as a STP file. I then wanted to move the part to the work origin so I clicked on a surface of the part. I then moved it, but only the top surface got moved and I suddenly found myself looking inside the solid like popping the top off of a can.

Are you SURE you are importing them as a solid model and not surfaces?
It sounds like you have Surfcam set up to convert solids into surfaces. Again, I have no experience with Surfcam so I don't know if that's even possible,but sure sounds like it.
 
Are you SURE you are importing them as a solid model and not surfaces?
It sounds like you have Surfcam set up to convert solids into surfaces. Again, I have no experience with Surfcam so I don't know if that's even possible,but sure sounds like it.

Sounds about right. I don't know for sure, but I don't think I have seen a bad stp file (certainly outliers), or one come in as surfaces unless I told it to.


SRFC.JPG
 
I did try the Mecsoft product. If I recall, each tool had to be specifically defined from scratch. There were no tool libraries?....
Mecsoft provides both imperial and metric tool libraries as .csv files. Even with that, I edit many of the tools or create new ones because of the variety of materials I work with.
 
It doesn't work with Alibre, but HSMWorks Express is pretty hard to beat for 2.5D CAM (at least until Autodesk screws things up for us). It's available free for both Solidworks and Inventor. I'm not sure how the Inventor vs Autocad LT licensing compares.
 
Tried OneCNC and it wouldn't work for me for 2 main reasons. One the CAD side is not parametric and two the 3D CAM side will not allow you to keep the tool down and it retracts between levels which was a huge deal breaker for me cause I use a lot of high feed mills for pocketing.

I entertained Esprit, NX and SolidCAM. Esprit quickly was out of the race to due them not doing eval trials. Ended up with SolidCAM 3+2 with every 3 axis 3D toolpath they have to offer as well as 2 axis turning. It was a lot of money but quickly paid for itself with much faster cycle times and longer tool life. I run older controls and can really smooth the code out better than Inventor or Fusion would allow.

There is 2D iMachining and 3D iMachining. I thought at first I wouldn't like them suggesting feeds and speeds but they are actually pretty damn close to numbers I feel comfortable with. Most of the time I just set it on level 8 and let it do all the work. If you want you can go in and make whatever adjustments you want.

If you have any questions abut SolidCAM let me know. I have no association with them other than being a satisfied customer.

SolidCAM says on their site that they don't do eval trials but there is a little trick you can do that will allow you to download a 60 day trial without even speaking to anyone. PM me if you are interested.
 
I have never used Surfcam, but you can't import a solid model? It turns into a wireframe?
Do you use STP? Parasolid? X_T?

The OP stated "While I love the latest Autocad LT, I only use it to supply drawings to Surfcam." so it sounds like just 2D wireframe.

but yes surfcam takes surface data
 
If you are going SolidWorks it has it's own CAM now but you must stay on subscription for it to be active, you do not get The Solidworks Parts and Assemblies version it would be the standard version of SW which is $3995 plus tax and $1295 subscription, they may have a deal out for the end of the year.

The Solidworks Parts and Assemblies version is only from SW Partners manly CAM.

you can also get HSMWorks, you have to buy Fusion 360 for the free entitlement but hey $495 a year is cheap and you don't have to use Fusion at all.

As for surfcam have run it since 92\93 and have the latest, if you do all your modeling in Alibre just as out a parasolid, step or iges and surfcam can bring in the the surface data so you'll have both wire and surfaces for shading.
 
Sounds about right. I don't know for sure, but I don't think I have seen a bad stp file (certainly outliers), or one come in as surfaces unless I told it to.


View attachment 304986

Surfcam is a surface based CAM software

ok lets clarify the one you are showing is the rebranded EdgeCAM "surfcam" which was not around in 2009

this is surfcam now traditional and as of last month back to just plan surfcam as they now longer are doing the rebranded version.

surfcam open.jpg
 
I took the plunge a few years ago and bought Solidworks and Solidworks CAM Professional. Solidworks CAM is a level of CAMworks.

Your needs sound similar to mine and it has generally been pretty satisfactory. I do keep my license up so support is available and pretty good. Personally I think the SW CAM pro is a little pricey for a product that practically does not include any 3d. My work is all 2.5d for now but hope to do more in the future.

Also, generally at the end of the quarter/year is a good time to start looking. At least for Solidworks they give some extra deals.
 
There is 2D iMachining and 3D iMachining. I thought at first I wouldn't like them suggesting feeds and speeds but they are actually pretty damn close to numbers I feel comfortable with. Most of the time I just set it on level 8 and let it do all the work. If you want you can go in and make whatever adjustments you want.

If you have any questions abut SolidCAM let me know. I have no association with them other than being a satisfied customer.

SolidCAM seemed to make sense to me. The folks there took me through one of my typical parts with "complications" and handled it pretty smoothly. For me, a big attraction is SW Parts and Assemblies. Most of my customers use some form of SW and it probably would be good to get on the same page.

Am I right in thinking that in iMachining vs 2.5 Std Milling, the iMachining adds the system rigidity slider and speeds/feeds calculation? It also adds some form of trochoidal machining? It just seemed like there were a bunch of modules that could be added like Automatic Feature Recognition Machining (AFRM) but these were glossed over a bit. They were probably glossed over because the SW Parts and Assemblies plus the SolidCAM was hitting the upper bounds of my budget!

Thank you for the feedback on SolidCAM!
 
I did try the Mecsoft product. If I recall, each tool had to be specifically defined from scratch. There were no tool libraries?

It's easy to create and use tool libraries in the MecSoft products. It's also easy to save defaults, create and use knowledge bases, and you can use automatic feature detection and automatic feature machining once you set it up. Like all CAM products, put a bit of effort into it in the beginning and reap the rewards every time you program.

Dan
 
The OP stated "While I love the latest Autocad LT, I only use it to supply drawings to Surfcam." so it sounds like just 2D wireframe.

but yes surfcam takes surface data

I did not know that. Haven't used since about '12 though, so don't remember alot of it.... Is there a setting/toggle to have it import solids (for the record)?
 








 
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