Problems with Solid/Rigid tapping - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCarroll View Post
    You should call Gary Frost's people and get their help.
    Machinery Sales are/were the Kitamura reseller in California.

    1-626-581-9221
    I'll do that I was trying to avoid calling someone as I know they're running a business and time is valuable. Thanks for the suggestion

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMVERGINO View Post
    So as I said above G94 turns off solid tap mode. The only two G codes related to solid tapping are G93/G94 I'm attaching below the explanation in the yasnac manual for my controller. IPR is used in solid tap you cannot use IPM.
    Ok, by looking at that 1st picture, to me that's saying NOT to use a G84, but instead just use the G93?
    It says the G84 cancels out the solid tapping cycle.

    But their program example shows a G84.

    I'm out of ideas, sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Ok, by looking at that 1st picture, to me that's saying NOT to use a G84, but instead just use the G93?
    It says the G84 cancels out the solid tapping cycle.

    But their program example shows a G84.

    I'm out of ideas, sorry.
    G93 turns on solid tap mode, G84 gives the tapping cycle its parameters... ie return point, depth, and pitch, my problem is the spindle speed I apply here or earlier in the operation gets overridden. I have been digging deeper and according to the yasnac manual some of the parameters have to do with spindle rotoation and the spindle PG rotation being 1:1. so my feeling is possibly a parameter could be incorrect and the spindle is spinning at a fraction of what is commanded ie. 1:3, 1:2 etc.. but since I'm not gonna go into the parameters and start changing 0's to 1's I'm at a stand still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMVERGINO View Post
    G93 turns on solid tap mode, G84 gives the tapping cycle its parameters... ie return point, depth, and pitch, my problem is the spindle speed I apply here or earlier in the operation gets overridden. I have been digging deeper and according to the yasnac manual some of the parameters have to do with spindle rotoation and the spindle PG rotation being 1:1. so my feeling is possibly a parameter could be incorrect and the spindle is spinning at a fraction of what is commanded ie. 1:3, 1:2 etc.. but since I'm not gonna go into the parameters and start changing 0's to 1's I'm at a stand still.
    Ok, this would be a hack, but worth a try IMO to try and narrow it down. If a param is affecting spindle speed on just the tapping cycle, you could program the tap exorbitantly fast (x2 x3 of normal) and see what happens? BUT doesn't explain your feed issues. Even if your spindle is only running 100rpm, feed per rev doesn't care. You could still theoretically tap your hole correctly, albeit at a snails pace, as long as enough torque is there at low rpms...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMVERGINO View Post
    I'll do that I was trying to avoid calling someone as I know they're running a business and time is valuable. Thanks for the suggestion
    The most valuable thing any reseller of anything has is the good will of their end users.
    Garry's guys will be happy to help you out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Ok, this would be a hack, but worth a try IMO to try and narrow it down. If a param is affecting spindle speed on just the tapping cycle, you could program the tap exorbitantly fast (x2 x3 of normal) and see what happens? BUT doesn't explain your feed issues. Even if your spindle is only running 100rpm, feed per rev doesn't care. You could still theoretically tap your hole correctly, albeit at a snails pace, as long as enough torque is there at low rpms...
    This was also an idea I had thought of, and was on my list of things to try.
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCarroll View Post
    The most valuable thing any reseller of anything has is the good will of their end users.
    Garry's guys will be happy to help you out.
    I gave them a call. They didn't have someone in that was familiar with the yasnac, but they gave me the number to Kitamura direct and they did help I found out that the speed command at the beginning of the operation needs to be in the high range of the gear driven spindle, they recommend 3000 rpm. Then you command whatever speed you want to tap in the G84 line of code and the 3000 rpm is negated. I am firing up my machine now to give it a try and see what happens....

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    I was able to make the tap run any speed that I command. I guess with the gear driven spindle the initial speed has to be called out in the high range of the machine which is over 2500 rpm. They recommend just setting it at 3000, then just use any RPM you desire for the tapping operation and assign that in the G84 line of code.
    Thanks to everyone who replied, in the end calling in the manufacturer was the way to go. My yasnac manual makes no metion of the importance of this first speed and I guess this is because different spindles could be on the machine and only the geared HI/Low one requires this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMVERGINO View Post
    I gave them a call. They didn't have someone in that was familiar with the yasnac, but they gave me the number to Kitamura direct and they did help I found out that the speed command at the beginning of the operation needs to be in the high range of the gear driven spindle, they recommend 3000 rpm. Then you command whatever speed you want to tap in the G84 line of code and the 3000 rpm is negated. I am firing up my machine now to give it a try and see what happens....
    What the hell kind of backwoods hack is that? I can't believe that is the answer they gave you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMVERGINO View Post
    I was able to make the tap run any speed that I command. I guess with the gear driven spindle the initial speed has to be called out in the high range of the machine which is over 2500 rpm. They recommend just setting it at 3000, then just use any RPM you desire for the tapping operation and assign that in the G84 line of code.
    Thanks to everyone who replied, in the end calling in the manufacturer was the way to go. My yasnac manual makes no metion of the importance of this first speed and I guess this is because different spindles could be on the machine and only the geared HI/Low one requires this.

    I think you will find that there is an M code that is used for gear range selection somewhere in the documentation.
    Maybe not but it's not unusual to select high range for tapping per the manufacturers recommendation regardless.
    Even FADAL recommended this.

    It is frequently required on gear head machines but even integral spindles with multiple winding's want a specific winding selected in many cases.The MTB will build the range selection into the canned cycle so the end user isn't aware of it.
    M41 and M42 were the commonly used M codes in the 90's but the builder could do whatever they wanted to do.

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCarroll View Post
    I think you will find that there is an M code that is used for gear range selection somewhere in the documentation.
    Maybe not but it's not unusual to select high range for tapping per the manufacturers recommendation regardless.
    Even FADAL recommended this.

    It is frequently required on gear head machines but even integral spindles with multiple winding's want a specific winding selected in many cases.The MTB will build the range selection into the canned cycle so the end user isn't aware of it.
    M41 and M42 were the commonly used M codes in the 90's but the builder could do whatever they wanted to do.
    There is no M code I'm attaching the documentation that Kitamura gave me after I talked with their service tech. None of this matters, however because after I followed the instructions and used 6 decimal places for the F/pitch like they say to I was off and tapping. I tapped 6 perfect M10 x 1.5 holes and everything went smoothly. The speed of tapping was whatever I commanded in the G84 line of code. The spindle spins up to 3000 rpm when the operation begins but stops, initializes, then starts at the commanded speed for tapping
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMVERGINO View Post
    There is no M code I'm attaching the documentation that Kitamura gave me after I talked with their service tech. None of this matters, however because after I followed the instructions and used 6 decimal places for the F/pitch like they say to I was off and tapping. I tapped 6 perfect M10 x 1.5 holes and everything went smoothly. The speed of tapping was whatever I commanded in the G84 line of code. The spindle spins up to 3000 rpm when the operation begins but stops, initializes, then starts at the commanded speed for tapping
    Glad you got it figured out!

    Found this, might be of future help

    https://wiki.milwaukeemakerspace.org...f_appendix.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMVERGINO View Post
    Hello,

    I just joined PM and I was hoping to get a little help with Solid/Rigid tapping issue I'm having.
    The Machine I'm using is a Kitamura MyCenter3x with a yasnac I80M controller I'm still just using HSM Express that I downloaded for free and is baked into my Solidworks.

    My question is I have been trying to thread some aluminum parts using the solid tapping function and cannot get it to produce anything worthwhile. One weird thing is that HSM outputs a spindle speed at the beginning of the operation and then again in the G84 line of code. No matter what either one is set at before the tap goes into the part and while its initializing the spindle stops then begins to rotate very slowly while its descending into the part. I've deleted the Speed command in the G84 line and the same thing happens. I'm not quite sure what's going on or what if anything I'm doing wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm attaching just a small example of the code I'm running for a tap cycle with a M10 x 1.5 hole. It looks like its working perfectly in the air but obviously something is off. I know that my spindle speed is too slow right now in the code below I'm just trying to keep it at something I can watch.
    Thanks!

    O00054 (M10 TAPPED HOLE)
    (T0014 D=0.3937 CR=0. - ZMIN=-0.625 - RIGHT HAND TAP)
    N10 G90 G94 G17
    N15 G20
    N20 G28 G91 Z0.
    N25 G90
    (DRILL3)
    N30 M09
    N35 T14
    N37 M06
    N40 S381 M03
    N45 M08
    N55 G00 G54 X1.875 Y-0.75
    N60 G43 Z0.6 H14
    N70 G00 Z0.2
    N75 M03
    N80 G93
    N85 G98 G84 X1.875 Y-0.75 Z-0.625 R0.1655 F0.0591 S381
    N90 G80
    N95 G94
    N100 Z0.6
    N110 M09
    N115 G28 G91 Z0.
    N120 G28 X0. Y0.
    N122 M05
    N123 T20
    N124 M06
    N125 M30
    I had this exact problem, and I edited the PP to output G95 instead. It solved it for me.

    case "tapping":
    if (!F) {
    F = tool.getThreadPitch();
    }
    writeBlock(
    gRetractModal.format(98), gAbsIncModal.format(90), gCycleModal.format(84), gFeedModeModal.format(95),
    getCommonCycle(x, y, z, cycle.retract),
    "P" + milliFormat.format(P),
    "F" + xyzFormat.format(tool.getThreadPitch())
    );
    break;
    case "left-tapping":
    if (!F) {
    F = tool.getThreadPitch();
    }
    writeBlock(
    gRetractModal.format(98), gAbsIncModal.format(90), gCycleModal.format(74), gFeedModeModal.format(95),
    getCommonCycle(x, y, z, cycle.retract),
    "P" + milliFormat.format(P),
    "F" + xyzFormat.format(tool.getThreadPitch())
    );
    break;
    case "right-tapping":
    if (!F) {
    F = tool.getThreadPitch();
    }
    writeBlock(
    gRetractModal.format(98), gAbsIncModal.format(90), gCycleModal.format(84), gFeedModeModal.format(95),
    getCommonCycle(x, y, z, cycle.retract),
    "P" + milliFormat.format(P),
    "F" + xyzFormat.format(tool.getThreadPitch())
    );
    break;


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