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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Well, that's probably because you have not gotten any one of the dozens of ADSK shafts up yer' ass!
    See how you'd feel if you've been a loyal customer for many years, spent north of 50K on being a loyal customer, only to be rewarded with
    a very kindly worded Fuck You letter!

    So if you want to invest your time and effort into Fusion only to have Autodesk turn the tables on you a year or two down the road .... please, be my guest.

    Seymour,

    I’m really sorry that you’ve been hosed over by AutoDesk… really I am.

    However, venting frustrations in a public forum will not cause Autodesk to apologize or refund money. They don’t care about me, or you, or any other singular entity. They care about the “big picture”.

    As I’ve stated in other posts, most of us that use software are experiencing a not uncommon lifecycle in companies that produce a “technical commodity”. Cell phone plans, DirecTV, Amazon Prime, software, etc. — these are all items that once developed, can be “incremented” in features without much work/cost, and more importantly: hugely scaled with almost no work or cost.

    The direction that companies like this take is to gradually shift focus from technical development and customers support (which go hand-in-hand), into companies that focus on growing the customer base and stabilizing and growing revenue stream. Managers and finance people end up running the company, which pulls money out of R&D and customer support, and pushes it into stock value and management bonuses.

    We can all like it, or more likely hate it… but that is the direction of the present and the future. The world is being… “de-personalized”. More and more companies will take their software into the cloud and go subscription model — the writing is on the wall, and there is no stopping it. Eventually almost everything we use will be cloud-based and subscription model. Yes… we can jump on legacy software and try and maintain an old Windows XP machine to run it (and that could still work for a while), but eventually Microsoft (or whoever) will make that more and more difficult as well. The other option is to dive into new/different software from a company that has not gone through the above “life cycle” (yet), however if they are successful, they too will sooner or later move in that direction.

    So once again, I’m genuinely sorry for you or anyone else that has invested in a CAD/CAM package and “believed” (and may have been promised) they were locked in to a reliable, stable package that was “bought and paid for”. I’ve been down that road myself, and I would suspect most everyone here has as well in one form or another. The only solution that I personally see is... "adapt as well as possible".


    I will also stick by my original post: I feel that bang-for-the-buck, (especially for someone just getting into CAD and/or CAM) it’s very difficult to beat Fusion360 for its price/features ratio. It costs less per year that many companies charge for just an annual maintenance fee, and even if someone signs-on for a year and jumps ship, it is “conceptually” similar enough to how most CAD and/or CAM systems function that it is not wasted time.

    PM
    Last edited by precisionmetal; 04-08-2020 at 01:53 AM. Reason: fixed one spelling mistake, oops

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    How could something be MORE cloud-based than conFusion 360??
    I did a 30 day trial of Fusion. Here is my gripe list:

    1) You cannot rotate the model without going all the way to the top right corner and turning the cube. No click-drag.
    2) EVERYTHING is cloud-based. All your files, license, etc. No internet- no worky.
    3)Their sales people. They put used car salesmen to shame.
    4) Modeling sucks! There are minimal external file references, everything is locally stored in a file.
    5) CAM sucks too. I did so much cheating and lying to make it do what I wanted it to...
    6) There is no user customization like SW.


    I know some people will say you have to pay maintenance on SolidWorks.
    Not true.
    I have a friend that bought SW Professional for $3500. He has ZERO internet connection and doesn't pay maint. He's just fine.
    First I'm not a Fusion 360 shill. I've used mostly used Solidworks but also Solidedge, Pro/E, Inventor, Esprit, AutoCAD etc etc.

    1. You can rotate via click and drag. Check your settings. There is actually a setting to make it function like Solidworks.
    2. While it is cloud based you can work off line. You select which files you wish to store. People bitch about this but I view it not much different than working in a large environment that has PLM. If I want to work over the weekend I have to sign out my files to work on and recheck in on Monday. What's the big deal?
    3. To be honest I didn't even know Fusion had salespeople.
    4. Fusion is designed for small parts and low volume assemblies. Modeling everything in one file is something that I've experienced in Solidworks as well. Body based modelling isn't a bad thing. Depends on what your are doing. OP says small assemblies.
    5. CAM is exceptional for the price.
    6. He is just learning CAD.

    The biggest gripe I have with Fusion is the constraint system. It's hot garbage but you can work around it.

    Just sign up for Fusion. Get your feet wet - it is the best solution right now for you. After you get a handle on it move on to a higher end package if you find it isn't doing something you need it to. It's inexpensive and works well. Most people who trash talk it either:

    1. Are Solidworks fanboys who are living 10 years ago when Solidworks was the best mid range package around. IDS drove Solidworks into the ground. Years of talk about a new kernel, but they just add more craptastic menus to justify the ridiculous annual support payments and IDS having to pay Siemens for the Parasolid engine. No real added functionality. Today I'd buy Solidedge or even Alibre before I purchased Solidworks.
    2. They have been burned by Autodesk in the past and will not do business with them ever again. I respect this more but I'm a bit more pragmatic. Autodesk has done a lot to redeem itself by bringing an affordable, decent entry level CAD system. Nobody else has even tried.

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  5. #23
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    Hi Seymour,
    Totally agree with you.
    As for the "named user" BS my workaround will be to have a few designated computers where as far as AD is concerned - only one guy is using one machine (around the clock:-)
    Impossible to rewind 20 years, but now I wish that I started off with SW rather than Inventor. I'm too old and lazy now to start all over + all our 100+ products are designed in Inventor.

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginuity View Post
    There is actually a setting to make it function like Solidworks.
    At least they see the light......

  7. #25
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    [QUOTE=enginuity;3524593To be honest I didn't even know Fusion had salespeople.
    [/QUOTE]

    I can fix that.

    What's your phone number?

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    How could something be MORE cloud-based than conFusion 360??
    I did a 30 day trial of Fusion. Here is my gripe list:

    1) You cannot rotate the model without going all the way to the top right corner and turning the cube. No click-drag.
    2) EVERYTHING is cloud-based. All your files, license, etc. No internet- no worky.
    3)Their sales people. They put used car salesmen to shame.
    4) Modeling sucks! There are minimal external file references, everything is locally stored in a file.
    5) CAM sucks too. I did so much cheating and lying to make it do what I wanted it to...
    6) There is no user customization like SW.


    I know some people will say you have to pay maintenance on SolidWorks.
    Not true.
    I have a friend that bought SW Professional for $3500. He has ZERO internet connection and doesn't pay maint. He's just fine.
    1. Yes you can. There are several ways, you can even set it to behave like Solidworks so you can use the middle mouse button.

    2. Yes it is. You can however go offline and work for up to a month (I think) and you can export files for offline use/backup if you wish. I can see why people donít like it and to be honest I donít disagree however I do like that I can essentially have my workstation and preferences set up on any machine as soon as I sign in. If you could use cloud storage Iíd be much happier.

    3. From the small interaction I had with one Iím inclined to agree.

    4. I think this is dependant on your workflow. You can use external references via several methods including AnyCad meaning you can update a Solidworks file and have it update in Fusion (if you are say using fusion for CAM only). You can also reference files in different projects or bring in derived assemblies if you want to create a fixture setup for your model. I think this is maybe more powerful than you realise but again, depending on your setup it might not be what you want/need.

    5. I think this depends on what youíre doing and what youíre used to. I think itís pretty self explanatory, simple to create a good workflow and especially for people new to CAM, extremely well explained with all the info tabs and online resources. The low barrier to entry with cost helps (potential future fuckovers aside).

    6. There is. You just have to go to the chosen command and click the three little dots to the right. You can setup keyboard shortcuts in here. You can obviously adjust your environment, icons etc. as required too.

    Coming from Solidworks I have always been dubious about changing but it does do a lot of things right. I think for someone with the requirements they mentioned Fusion is a really good option with a easy learning curve to build their knowledge as/when required.

  9. #27
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    Okay, to close this out: I am feeling really good about my purchase for TurboCAD 2019 Deluxe. I got on their website this morning, asked about pricing, was given an email address, sent that, got a pretty quick response and then a link sent to pay/download at a decent price (reasonable discount from MSRP) and will be able to upgrade to Platinum at an even bigger discount (which can import IGES, STP and several other formats).

    I gotta say that, so far, this is so much easier to "self learn" (as I like to do) than Fusion 360 was. I tried a few things with the free trial and towards the end finally went to one of the demo videos that walked you through a design. That video fired the cannon on the self-learning, it really opened up a lot of things that I used to know with CATIA decades ago. I will likely watch a few more videos but am so glad that I don't have to go through the painstakingly slow "step by step" process that Fusion 360 used. Maybe I could have avoided that but, overall, I still think this is a good fit for me and is going to be much cheaper in the long run. Not saying it's the best system out there, it is just working great for what I need (so far, anyway).

    The Dude

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Okay, to close this out: I am feeling really good about my purchase for TurboCAD 2019 Deluxe. I got on their website this morning, asked about pricing, was given an email address, sent that, got a pretty quick response and then a link sent to pay/download at a decent price (reasonable discount from MSRP) and will be able to upgrade to Platinum at an even bigger discount (which can import IGES, STP and several other formats).

    I gotta say that, so far, this is so much easier to "self learn" (as I like to do) than Fusion 360 was. I tried a few things with the free trial and towards the end finally went to one of the demo videos that walked you through a design. That video fired the cannon on the self-learning, it really opened up a lot of things that I used to know with CATIA decades ago. I will likely watch a few more videos but am so glad that I don't have to go through the painstakingly slow "step by step" process that Fusion 360 used. Maybe I could have avoided that but, overall, I still think this is a good fit for me and is going to be much cheaper in the long run. Not saying it's the best system out there, it is just working great for what I need (so far, anyway).

    The Dude
    Letís just hope the program is better than their naming and marketing strategies.

  12. #29
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    If your going to buy software I'll throw in something very left field.
    Buy a shining 3d scanner and get with it Solid Edge.
    Less money than Solid Works and you have yourself a nice scanner which you can sell on ebay.
    Vastly reduces the price to you of very nice software.
    For reference I use ZW3D and Alibre design.

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