Specialist CAM software vs Fusion 360... - Page 3
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 181
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    321
    Likes (Received)
    340

    Default

    Fusion is a joke. It's for hobby shops not shops that want to make money

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,913
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    765
    Likes (Received)
    2268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Fusion is a joke. It's for hobby shops not shops that want to make money
    The people who say that are not actually proficient in Fusion.

    I would call myself proficient in Fusion, SolidWorks/HSM Works, and probably a mid-level NX user, with some basic experience in Esprit and MasterCAM.

    Fusion absolutely is not a toy. It is developing faster than any other CAM software on the market, and the Fusion you finger-banged one evening 3 years ago is a totally different beast than what they are shipping today.

  3. Likes barbter, coffeetek, empwoer, len_1962, Pariel and 1 others liked this post
  4. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,852
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Fusion absolutely is not a toy. It is developing faster than any other CAM software on the market, and the Fusion you finger-banged one evening 3 years ago is a totally different beast than what they are shipping today.
    May be. But it is an Autodesk product. It's not "if" they are going to screw you, it's when and for how much.

    I don't understand paying for "maintenance" myself, either. Once upon a time new versions got better but that was years ago. For anyone who is not a Big Player, cadcam is now like pussy - it has flaws and it's not going to improve but you still want it. A different one is going to have just as many problems, may as well choose one and hang onto it.

    The grass is not greener elsewhere. It just looks that way.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,913
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    765
    Likes (Received)
    2268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    May be. But it is an Autodesk product. It's not "if" they are going to screw you, it's when and for how much.
    Look, here is what I think Fusion is great for:

    1- Startups who need CAD/CAM to get their initial few products onto the market and start generating revenue. Unless you're business plan involves a Hermle and generative designed inconel parts you'll sell on eBay, Fusion has a 95% chance of doing everything you need, and lets you spend the other $14,500 of your seed capital on way higher ROI investments when you are at startup scale. Once you get any momentum, you should always be prepared to pop smoke and exfil the Fusion dependency with "real" software, or you are a fool.

    2- Hobby guys. Tinkerers. Folks learning the basics. Garage dudes. Fusion blows every other option out of the water here.

    3- As a replacement for those atrocious on-control programming schemes every machine offers (Fanuc Manual Guide I, Haas IPS, Okuma whatever they call it, everything about Hurco). As a tool for banging out simple jobs, one-off tools, and side projects? Fusion is unparalleled in speed and simplicity. It is already doing this in a lot of shops with tens of millions of dollars worth of very expensive machines, who have access to seats of all the exotic software tools. Yet, a lot of the guys in those environments I know? Fucking love Fusion for getting simple stuff done quickly.

    Fusion is to CAD/CAM what a Leatherman is to a Chris Reeve Sebenza - a very reasonably priced, easy to operate, multi-functional tool who's power comes from it's combination of low cost, simplicity, and flexibility. Comparing it to a seat of NX Mach ID + Hypermill, or a 5 axis seat of Esprit, or a loaded MasterCAM instillation is fucking stupid... but it is equally ignorant to call it a "toy".

  6. Likes coffeetek, wheelieking71, mountie liked this post
  7. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,852
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Once you get any momentum, you should always be prepared to pop smoke and exfil the Fusion dependency with "real" software, or you are a fool.
    With that little provison added, okay

    They are all going to screw you, it's a proven fact. At least with something where you have the software on your desk, you aren't going to go backwards. That's what would decide me against Fusion, no matter how good it might be.

  8. Likes as9100d liked this post
  9. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,913
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    765
    Likes (Received)
    2268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    With that little provison added, okay

    They are all going to screw you, it's a proven fact. At least with something where you have the software on your desk, you aren't going to go backwards. That's what would decide me against Fusion, no matter how good it might be.
    In 10 years, all relevant CAD/CAM software will be subscription or will have committed to going that way.

    CAD/CAM is an outlier/laggard in all this. All of your corporate IT management, CRM, HR, ERP software? Has been subscription based (and on the web) for about 5 years now. Your servers? Subscription to AWS/Azure. Photoshop? Avid? Both subscription.

    What is the most disruptive thing to happen to CAD/CAM in the last 5 years? Autodesk made it available for $500 a year to anyone who wanted it and basically nuked their VAR network. What some laggards call a "Toy" is actually putting a big hurt on revenue for everyone else who is having a very difficult time justifying why someone should pay 10x upfront and 4x per year maintenance - don't believe me? call your SolidWorks var around maintenance time and ask they why you shouldn't switch to Fusion if you want to hear a stream of bullshit and FUD.

  10. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    4,046
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1611
    Likes (Received)
    1880

    Default

    Welp, I'm going to see about downloading fusion at home and see what the hub-bub is about...

  11. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,852
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    All of your corporate IT management, CRM, HR, ERP software? Has been subscription based (and on the web) for about 5 years now. Your servers? Subscription to AWS/Azure. Photoshop? Avid? Both subscription.
    I see I'm going to have to dust off the John F Akers Award !

    These people are fools. We could go into it at length but this is the stupidest thing they could easily do. Meaning, you'd have to try pretty hard to find a dumber way to behave.

    Disasters, Frank ! Twelve o'clock high ! Take evasive action, ack ack ack ackack ! boof ! boof ! ka-rump ! Number three's out ! Get your chutes on ! I'll bring her in alone !

    It's idiocy.

    About the software to smaller companies, a bunch of us do NOT "subscribe" to that crap, because the assholes at Adobe (since you invoked those demons from Hell) offer nothing. Fuck it. Ten year old Adobe products work fine, thank you very much. In fact they work better than newer versions.

    And they are free

    There was a place in Engerlund coming out with some viable counterparts to Illustrator and PShop, haven't kept up but one of their selling points was that it is NOT "subscription". So there is that aspect to the subscription poopile.

    Avid ? Who cares ? no one uses that thing. I don't think Autodesk dares to put Inferno up for subscription. That would be interesting to see ...

    call your SolidWorks var around maintenance time and ask they why you shouldn't switch to Fusion if you want to hear a stream of bullshit and FUD.
    I don't need to. I do not do maintenance, that's another huge crock of poo

    Basically, software newer than ten years old is a scam. It's all crap, older versions in fact work better, so all they have left for income is extortion schemes. (And I have about a fifty pound box of dvd's, so I have tried some of this stuff. But it got boring so I quit. Most of it is junque.)

    If you guys want to bend over, fine. But I've still got my prune and I'm keeping it intact, thank you very much.

  12. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Michigan USA
    Posts
    1,128
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    84
    Likes (Received)
    236

    Default

    WOW this got off track, which isn't to unusual around here. We have been using Fusion since the beginning. Works good, like anything else you need to learn it. No big deal. Cost next to nothing, we are locked in at $300.00 per year forever. I guess forever could be next year if they go under or abandon it.

    Then we would be out the 1500.00 or so we have paid in. The software works, models and programs. Buy it.

  13. Likes empwoer liked this post
  14. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    321
    Likes (Received)
    340

    Default

    I'd be willing to put my cadcam package up against fusion and it would spank fusion in every regard.

    Has anyone checked the files it puts out with the original? Wait none of you do this?? Oh boy...you're all in for a rude awakening for how the industry is changing. Might consider buying verisurf validate.

    Fusion is great for entry level, but for a business it's a joke. If fusion dies today, you're out completely. I however will still be able to conduct business and program parts.

    We don't have any subscription based programs here and I refuse to support those models. You never own anything and the service is way over priced. Of course they like that model, they make more money.





    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  15. Likes mhajicek, barbter liked this post
  16. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    321
    Likes (Received)
    340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    In 10 years, all relevant CAD/CAM software will be subscription or will have committed to going that way.

    CAD/CAM is an outlier/laggard in all this. All of your corporate IT management, CRM, HR, ERP software? Has been subscription based (and on the web) for about 5 years now. Your servers? Subscription to AWS/Azure. Photoshop? Avid? Both subscription.

    What is the most disruptive thing to happen to CAD/CAM in the last 5 years? Autodesk made it available for $500 a year to anyone who wanted it and basically nuked their VAR network. What some laggards call a "Toy" is actually putting a big hurt on revenue for everyone else who is having a very difficult time justifying why someone should pay 10x upfront and 4x per year maintenance - don't believe me? call your SolidWorks var around maintenance time and ask they why you shouldn't switch to Fusion if you want to hear a stream of bullshit and FUD.
    My solidworks can do accurate sheet metal, your fusion cannot. My solidworks can do all sorts of mold features, fusion cannot. Solidworks is itar compliant and works if the internet is down or if fusions license server is down. Fusion doesn't.

    If an engineer gets stuck in solidworks or solidcam, they can call support and they will login via go-to meeting and help the engineer in real time....solving the problem and training that engineer.

    Fusion has no support like this.



    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  17. Likes mhajicek liked this post
  18. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,852
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1326

    Default

    And the secret word for today is .... Photobucket !

    To be fair to Fusion, as several people have pointed out, it does have a place. But the original question was "why would any company spend big money on other software when Fusion is so cheap ?"

    Maybe that's been answered.

  19. Likes as9100d, rcoope liked this post
  20. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,959
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1156
    Likes (Received)
    1210

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    How does the code size of Fusion compare to other CAM programs? We use Edgecam also, and every new version creates larger and larger programs for relatively simple parts. It's not a code generator issue, it's in the modeler, we have to dick around with settings for toolpath creation and simple changes can double the code size without a corresponding change in how the toolpath looks. No HSM involved, just old school 3D parts.
    Not that I have much to compare it too but I doubt the code would be any more compacted with another CAM program. I manually remove any unnecessary code from my production programs so I am very sensitive to this. For 2-1/2 axis work I have zero complaints with Fusion, it does everything I wish for.

    It depends on your needs what software is best, for mine Fusion is lightyears ahead of anything else. If Fusion went tits up my production jobs would run just fine, since those programs are saved as G code files. I too am paying $300 a year so what I have saved in the last 5 years would go a long way in replacing it, if I needed to. Sure I would have to reprogram the tool paths on some tooling but since the designs have changed I would have to anyway. Everyone is going to try to get more money from you if they get a chance, it is called Capitalism.

    athack, it isn't $300 a year, it's Professional for the price of Basic for life. If the price of Basic goes up that is what we will pay. If the price goes up 8 fold then it would be the same as paying maintenance on Solidworks so still a good deal since it would have CAM too.

    as9100d, I will bet you whatever you want that Fusion is clearly better than your cad/cam package, for my needs. From product design, tooling, molds, and 4th axis parts Fusion rules the roost, hell it rules the whole tree.

  21. Likes empwoer liked this post
  22. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    321
    Likes (Received)
    340

    Default

    Sounds like your needs aren't fast paced at all and that's why it's good for you....however on the other side of manufacturing where deadlines are closing in and parts are expedited and you need fast tool paths now..... Solidcam is light years ahead of fusion in terms of technology and speed from opening the cad file to spitting out gcode for the machines.

    Most programs made here are under 1 hour of time and this includes complex prismatic 3d machining.

    Something else solidworks and solidcam does is share resources for compiling toolpaths and gcode. It pulls CPU power from every work station and the server to calculate these things. Not waiting minutes for tool paths to calculate like fusion.

    So while fusion may work fine for you in the slow paced environment....I know it's too slow for us in this very fast paced environment.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  23. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    558
    Likes (Received)
    172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Sounds like your needs aren't fast paced at all and that's why it's good for you....however on the other side of manufacturing where deadlines are closing in and parts are expedited and you need fast tool paths now..... Solidcam is light years ahead of fusion in terms of technology and speed from opening the cad file to spitting out gcode for the machines.

    Most programs made here are under 1 hour of time and this includes complex prismatic 3d machining.

    Something else solidworks and solidcam does is share resources for compiling toolpaths and gcode. It pulls CPU power from every work station and the server to calculate these things. Not waiting minutes for tool paths to calculate like fusion.

    So while fusion may work fine for you in the slow paced environment....I know it's too slow for us in this very fast paced environment.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    not to sound like a dick, but you're clueless... the 1 thing that fusion is the BEST at, is speed of programming. this is coming from someone that's used mastercam, nx, solidcam, hypermill. a simple 3 axis part i can program in fusion 5x faster than any of the other ones mentioned.

  24. #56
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,124
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1395
    Likes (Received)
    769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    you realize that DOD/itar work is not the only thing out there right?
    what do you consider 'real' work?
    I don't do ITAR/DOD. I do medical, and that's all 100% proprietary, non-disclosure. Most job shop work involves a non-disclosure agreement. That alone make Fusion a non-starter.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Fusion is to CAD/CAM what a Leatherman is to a Chris Reeve Sebenza
    I think you've got that backwards. I looked up that Sebenza; it's a single bladed pocket knife. It does one thing. My Leatherman does everything the Sebenza does plus at least a dozen other things, and it does them all pretty well. Fusion is definitely the Sebenza.

  25. Likes as9100d liked this post
  26. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    321
    Likes (Received)
    340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    not to sound like a dick, but you're clueless... the 1 thing that fusion is the BEST at, is speed of programming. this is coming from someone that's used mastercam, nx, solidcam, hypermill. a simple 3 axis part i can program in fusion 5x faster than any of the other ones mentioned.
    Also not trying to sound like a dick but you clearly don't produce as many cam files as we do. Speed of programming in your eyes is a simple part with no simultaneous 3 or 4 axis part and probably no hsm path in steel or stainless steel.

    If it's faster at those parts great....those are the parts that are better suited to send to China anyways and make no real money.

    Compare that to parts that have lots of 3 axis simultaneous moves and hsm paths, fusion falls on its face.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  27. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    2,959
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1156
    Likes (Received)
    1210

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Also not trying to sound like a dick
    That's ok, we know you can't help it.

  28. Likes empwoer liked this post
  29. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    558
    Likes (Received)
    172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Also not trying to sound like a dick but you clearly don't produce as many cam files as we do. Speed of programming in your eyes is a simple part with no simultaneous 3 or 4 axis part and probably no hsm path in steel or stainless steel.

    If it's faster at those parts great....those are the parts that are better suited to send to China anyways and make no real money.

    Compare that to parts that have lots of 3 axis simultaneous moves and hsm paths, fusion falls on its face.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    LOL! so if you're wrong on something, you just keep moving the goalposts? gotcha, i'm finished here. its clear that you're set in your mind and absolutely nothing will change it so no need to carry this on.

  30. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    933
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    321
    Likes (Received)
    340

    Default

    You're more than welcome to do your own time study on programming speed from loading the cad model into the cam until there is good gcode without any edits.

    Fusion isn't in the same league as a real cadcam nor do I expect it to be. They don't have the money....

    I'd say we make between 50-80 programs per day on average. If my programmers had to sit around all day while toolpaths generated, we wouldn't get anything done.

    Let me know when fusion will share network cpu resources and I'll give it another look.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •