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Time to move on from CAM

shamanj

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Location
Australia
So I reworded this for the haters:
I'm interested in peoples experiences with their cam packages.
I need something proficient or half decent at 4 axis.

I have tried 10 or more evaluation packages and am ready to buy.
Bobcad
Sprutcam
Esprit
Visualmill
Featurecam
Gibbscam

I don't use solidworks so solidcam is out.
Budget is around 2k, maybe a bit more if I get what I need. Featurecam I'm experienced with but its 4 axis rotary is truely poor in terms of functionality.
Would like to hear your 4 axis experiences.
Thanks.
SJ
 
"Mastercam I hear sucks."
"I don't use solidworks(solidcam) i'd rather die of syphilis. "

This is going to be good. Hang on while I make some popcorn!
 
So you want cam with full 4 axis finishing that doesn't suck, for less than 2k?
Sign me up too.
If you ever do jump on the solidworks wagon, hsmworks is nice. Although the 4/5 axis version is roughly 5 times your budget.
 
I hear (see) the Mastercam sucks thing all the time, I think most of that comes from people who don't really know how to use it. I think Surfcam is about the worst thing ever, but I "learned" from someone that I think (in retrospect because no cam costing thousands of dollars can be that bad IMHO...) only knew the basics and didn't fully understand it. Flame on if you want people, but Mastercam is very powerful once you learn how to use it. I have been using since version 10 or X and don't have tooo many complaints LoL. I think it is one of those softwares that takes years to learn, compound that with it constantly being updated/patched and well, ya its a long road... You seem to have mentioned cad/cam packages from the nearly free to 10k plus, then say your budget is 2k ish....? I think you can get Bobcad for about that, I don't personally know it, but there is a member here that works for them I think that is very knowledgeable, don't remember his name off hand.
 
At your budget BobCad/Cam is probably your best choice. It still may come in over 2K for 4 axis, but will still be miles cheaper than the rest. 4 axis for any of the 'big guys' will be closer to the 10+k range.

I almost agree with the 'MasterCam Sucks' that gets thrown around here...those that defend against it are usually ones who have not learned any other CAM packages. I mean, sure it can make some nice HSM toolpaths, dynamic offseting etc are cool too, but the selection and creation of cutting geometry is archaic. I like to compare MasterCam to Bud Light, both have advertising budgets that could put a man on the moon (hence their market share), they both make a decent product that the masses consume, but there are so many better choices out there...from cheaper with the same results (Keystone - or in cam BOBCAD/CAM) to more expensive and much better (Flounders - or in cam NX, Esprit). I am fairly confident that even with MasterCams lead in # of seats its only a matter of time before that changes. They are no longer the best of the bunch, what got them on top was having a good product and advertising the nuts out of it 15 years ago...in todays game that is no longer good enough.

To use a Seth Godin term, MasterCam in no longer the 'Purple Cow' it once was...and I believe they know it.
 
Mind you I would probably spend up to 5 to get what I needed, provided it did the job I need.
I have been looking at bobcad, it does look nice, and looks like its getting nicer and more user friendly.
I'm a 1 man shop I don't have huge budgets to blow on cam software I will never make back and is freely available to pirate online, I'm happy to purchase reasonable things. 25k for CAM software truly is just plain stupid.
I've always been good at featurecam and used it extensively years ago, it is really limited by its 4 axis abilities though, and shines through on everything else. Featurecam was always user friendly with a nice interface.
Its hard to say how much to spend where because no one will tell people what their prices are. I'm still waiting to hear back from multiple companies.
I feel like maybe I might be missing out on good products by being stubborn, hence this new adventure. I do appreciate peoples input.
I looked at gibbs and wow is it powerful, but its interface is horrible!

If that Bobcad person comes online send me a PM we will talk.
 
I use EZCAM. I'm not going to argue it is the best, but I do enjoy it or I wouldn't mention it. I've looked at many and decided this was best FOR ME. Look at my site (knollprecision) and all the parts pictured were done using it. Some pictures are of 4 axis wrapping. That may give you an idea if it will work for you and your parts or not. I bought the mill pro package years ago and it was 4 or 5k. No maintenance fees unless you want to upgrade to the next level. The down side is that it is little known. Not much for forum help. However, when I call them for help, it is handled like I'm the only customer they have. What I like best is: no yearly maintenance; the posts are easy to modify to your liking; and you can bang out "quick and dirty code' for a vise jaw or something without a 3d model.
 
I looked at Onecnc, looks cool, I've read a few complaints but I might give them also a call on monday.
Bobcad appears to be in the lead right now though... except i can't seem to find a metric tool database... and the units on the tools seem to be imperial when i have the UCS/setup as metric. Thats weird, and makes me angry! LOL
 
Onecnc is probably on a similar kinda spec level to BC but Onecnc just feels so much more refined and slicker to use with its GUI etc .

If i had to change to BC from Onecnc would def not be happy :willy_nilly:

Cheers Kev :cool:
 
At your budget BobCad/Cam is probably your best choice. It still may come in over 2K for 4 axis, but will still be miles cheaper than the rest. 4 axis for any of the 'big guys' will be closer to the 10+k range.

I almost agree with the 'MasterCam Sucks' that gets thrown around here...those that defend against it are usually ones who have not learned any other CAM packages. I mean, sure it can make some nice HSM toolpaths, dynamic offseting etc are cool too, but the selection and creation of cutting geometry is archaic. I like to compare MasterCam to Bud Light, both have advertising budgets that could put a man on the moon (hence their market share), they both make a decent product that the masses consume, but there are so many better choices out there...from cheaper with the same results (Keystone - or in cam BOBCAD/CAM) to more expensive and much better (Flounders - or in cam NX, Esprit). I am fairly confident that even with MasterCams lead in # of seats its only a matter of time before that changes. They are no longer the best of the bunch, what got them on top was having a good product and advertising the nuts out of it 15 years ago...in todays game that is no longer good enough.

To use a Seth Godin term, MasterCam in no longer the 'Purple Cow' it once was...and I believe they know it.

I'm not going to argue about where the future of MCX is because frankly, it's just a guess... Anyways, I think you took a broad brush stroke to say those of us that defend it don't "know any better" (I'm reading that between the lines here, forgive me if I'm completely wrong on that...). I have used Esprit, Surfcam and Bobcad, as well as having seen some stuff on NX. When we (a couple jobs ago) were looking at a Cam package we looked at Esprit and Mastercam and they were the same price. I honestly can't say why we chose Mastercam.... but more to the point, we don't always have a choice of what we are using at work. The OP has a choice, thats what he is asking questions for, but Esprit and Mastercam aren't even close to his budget so it doesn't much matter.

Another thing about cam that hasn't been said is tech support. When I lived in northern IN, our tech support for MCX was outfuckingstanding!! These guys knew their shit hands down!! We could always get someone on the phone, always had emails answered promptly (very often same day, within hours alot of time), and on occasion when they didn't have an answer they had a work around for the problem. Now, contrast that to when I used Surfcam, those guys didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. We could never get a tech on the phone, always a sales guy or secretary saying they would leave a message. We often had to send out multiple emails before we got the typical "I, umm, am not sure how to fix that". We eventually got Surfcam (Surfware? maybe the corp name) to REFUND OUR MONEY because they just simply could not support us. What does that say about their cam package? You can argue they are a great company because they did that, but it inspires zero confidence about their product... Sure I hear alot of people like it, great if it works for you rock on, my experience was much different, much as other peoples experience with MCX is different than mine. Back to the support topic, I personally think MCX support sux down here FWIW.
 
I looked at Onecnc, looks cool, I've read a few complaints but I might give them also a call on monday.
Bobcad appears to be in the lead right now though... except i can't seem to find a metric tool database... and the units on the tools seem to be imperial when i have the UCS/setup as metric. Thats weird, and makes me angry! LOL


Well,metric sucks (oh boy here we go)
Let Al sort that out for you.I know from the "other" place where there is a BoB Forum with a large following,,many are using metric.Might ask those guys.

BTW,I can "make" my own tool database on any number system in the world as long as it has 0 thru 9 numbers.
Ask me if Al does not get you squared away if you want.But Al can make good video's and I can't,my laptop almost pukes running video editing software and Cad/Cam at same time.
 
I'm interested to know why dieing of syphilis is preferable to Solidworks?
Is Solidworks that bad, or is syphilis that good?
 
Good software of medium complexity takes hundreds of wours of work, (not just using it, necessarily) to learn how to use well, efficiently, fast.

Some cam may be like that - I am not advanced enough in CAM (mastercam, visualmill) to state with certainity, but am absolutely certaing of it with regards to ms office, rhino3d, solidworks, and about 3 versions of SQL dB and 5-10 programming languages (rhinoscript and gcode being 2).

Some examples:
Can you make the path well and fast ? Re-use it easily ? Integrate it with other stuff (your erp, your cam sw, you db, parts tracking, bills of good, etc etc etc).
Create versions of parts depending on variables ?
Automate it ?
Run multiple machines from the same sw easily, ie 5 axis vs 3+1 axis machine from same manufaturer, if the 5 axis is not free ?
Or, use 2 totally different machines to make the same part, but in totally different ways ?
How hard is this to do (like using a VMC as lathe to make some numbers of special bolts via thread milling for example ) ?

All above are relatively easy with some sw, and practically impossible with some other sw.
All above may be critical features, that allow you to make you work vastly easier and more efficient, especially if making families of products.

Can you do animations ?
How easily ? How good do they look ?
Again, may be very important for sales (high value stuff) or not at all.

Cad, cam, cae and multi-system integration are either easy, or not.
They may be tremendously valuable (or not).

The ability to link and program stuff is often potentially tremendously valuable.
Learning how to do so is a one month job on its own (about 150 hours). Just for scripting and linking to stuff.
Mastercam did not make it possible, for me, so it was out.

Its relatively easy in rhino, and seemingly relatively easy on solidworks. I need to re-do some soldworks stuff to check it out today vs some years ago.
 
I use OneCNC for our lathe.
It was $3500 for one seat of 2D only for our lathes.
At anytime we wanna go full blown 3d it will be another $1500 to add mill capability.

I had never used CAD or CAM for that manner.
Taught myself how to use it and in a weeks time was making parts if that tells you anything about how easy (for lathe anyway) it was to figure out.

We bought a CNC burn table and as it turns out OneCNC worked well with the sheetcam software that runs it.
Spent about 30 minutes showing a fellow how to set it up and rarely does he need help figuring out how to draw a shape.
 
Good software does not take years to learn.

I will clarify. I should have said "get very good with" not learn, my fault. I don't know how others work, but Mastercam has a major release every year, with small patches in between. I assume most follow some path being updated on some schedule. That being said, you have to "learn" the new process they just introduced/modified (an d unfortunately sometimes it was broke and plain needed fixed). So even though you may know version XCVT very well, when they update you have to learn a new toolpath or whatnot. I've said this before, I took Mastercam home with me the first weekend we bought it and was able to do complete 3d surfacing by looking at just the in software help. It's not that hard to learn, but hard to become proficient with.
 
Easy.

1. Pay for a seat of basic solidworks, try and get an end of the year deal.

2. HSMWorks has a lease option where you pay a couple hundred bucks a month.

This will put the entry cost right where you want and give you a very nice software setup. Programing the 4th in HSMWorks is beautifully simple.
 








 
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