Tool libraries: Is there a file source I'm missing?
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    Default Tool libraries: Is there a file source I'm missing?

    Hey folks,

    So... I don't like doing things the hard way. Creating a tool library seems absolutely nuts to me: everyone who's ever used CAM has made every tool and tool holder available on the planet. I've just made a jump to Fusion 360 for my own business. The program is simple enough, and it even comes with some of the tools I have already installed. But there's a lot it doesn't have: I use PowRgrip press fit holders for most of my endmills, a few Maritool holders for shell mills and drill chucks, and the majority of my bits are Maritool as well.

    Is there no universal source of tool files to draw from? This should be a simple answer, but I haven't really found anything. I must be missing the buzz words in the search bar.

    Thanks,

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    Short answer nope.

    Harvey has their catalogue available for some CAM systems but there is no universal library.

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    you have tool with its setup stickout length and you have tool holder with its own dia and length. if you standardize on tool setups you can fine tune expected properties or cutting parameters with the tooling
    .
    obviously if you double stickout length it will flex 2x2x2 or 8x more and if 3x stickout length its 3x3x3 or 27x more flex. and even if you have a short stickout length if tool holder is long its got its own flexing from length
    .
    then there is of course machine and fixture and part limits. it you have a 6" dia facemill that can take 40hp it dont mean the machine can take it. or the fixture can take it or the part can take the cutting forces. most just take a standard tool setup and do some testing on what its limits are. but just cause the tool can take it doesnt mean the part and fixture or the machine can take the cutting forces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzert View Post
    Short answer nope.
    That’s... fairly surprising to me.

    Cant imagine it’d be hard... Get a really simple generic website, have a files section, and just have a zip file with all the tools someone’s made from a manufacturer, speeds and feeds included. You could probably pay for the whole thing with a single advertisement. If they’re really generous, you can post some notes based on different lengths and setups or oddball materials.

    How proprietary can the information be if companies post the dimensions, feeds, and speeds right on their website? Maybe I’ll give this a try and see if I get sued.

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    feeds speeds depth and width of cuts can vary widely especially if stickout lengths vary.
    .
    literally a long tool and tool holder machining harder material might have trouble doing 1% of what a short tool and tool holder can do. and different machines have there own limits. many a machine will chatter or vibrate if using more than 5hp or 10hp or 20hp.
    .
    that is with same tooling you can get dramatic different results. no other way usually but to do extensive testing of your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderskunk View Post
    That’s... fairly surprising to me.

    Cant imagine it’d be hard... Get a really simple generic website, have a files section, and just have a zip file with all the tools someone’s made from a manufacturer, speeds and feeds included. You could probably pay for the whole thing with a single advertisement. If they’re really generous, you can post some notes based on different lengths and setups or oddball materials.

    How proprietary can the information be if companies post the dimensions, feeds, and speeds right on their website? Maybe I’ll give this a try and see if I get sued.
    Different CAM systems have different ways of importing tool data, for example in Gibbs I would still need to manually import each tool and holder and save it as a separate entity. A repository like you're suggesting would do me no good.

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    There is a standard, but it has not seen wide adoption yet. Sandvik and Kennametal support it, idk who else.

    ISO 13399 - Wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    feeds speeds depth and width of cuts can vary widely especially if stickout lengths vary.
    You're totally right. My own practice has been to work backwards; I was hand jamming codes before I started using CAM, so I've been pulling my feeds/speeds from my old programs for the most part. Even when I do work the other direction, I do exactly as you say: testing tools in each machine and setup then going back and forth until my posts reflect something I hopefully don't need to modify at the machine. I usually modify it anyways; I try to keep the guys from needing to use the feed override because it doesn't sound right.

    I guess my point is more assembly focused: I don't care about having a code 100% complete, but creating tools seems to be 30% of the work, and it's work someone has done before. I was going to modify the feeds and speeds anyways, but you can't change geometry. It would save a lot of hours if we could simply download someone else's labors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzert View Post
    Different CAM systems have different ways of importing tool data, for example in Gibbs I would still need to manually import each tool and holder and save it as a separate entity. A repository like you're suggesting would do me no good.
    So, I'm in no way qualified to disagree. On the contrary, I believe you. I have no experience with GibbsCam, nor know anyone who does. I do like to learn, so in the spirit of curiosity I looked up the Gibbs tool library and came up with this:

    YouTube

    At about 2:45 into it, he brings up the tool library in a windows explorer window. Granted, it's an 8 years old video, but I'm assuming it's like most other CAM systems that have a folder with tool files in it.

    If you simply had a folder of someone else's tool files, drag and dropped them into a "drawer," would they not show up when you booted the program? That's exactly what I did in MasterCAM, and if I had files to try it with I'd be doing it in Fusion 360. Worked fine for what I needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderskunk View Post
    So, I'm in no way qualified to disagree. On the contrary, I believe you. I have no experience with GibbsCam, nor know anyone who does. I do like to learn, so in the spirit of curiosity I looked up the Gibbs tool library and came up with this:

    YouTube

    At about 2:45 into it, he brings up the tool library in a windows explorer window. Granted, it's an 8 years old video, but I'm assuming it's like most other CAM systems that have a folder with tool files in it.

    If you simply had a folder of someone else's tool files, drag and dropped them into a "drawer," would they not show up when you booted the program? That's exactly what I did in MasterCAM, and if I had files to try it with I'd be doing it in Fusion 360. Worked fine for what I needed.
    Sorry I should have clarified earlier but those are gibbscam specific files and were generated by manual data entry by someone. Even today tools or lists of tools can be saved with a .tlst proprietary file type however that doesn't really help someone using Mastercam or Esprit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzert View Post
    Sorry I should have clarified earlier but those are gibbscam specific files and were generated by manual data entry by someone. Even today tools or lists of tools can be saved with a .tlst proprietary file type however that doesn't really help someone using Mastercam or Esprit
    No worries. I assume there's no way for one file format to work for all CAM systems. I guess I'm thinking of something like McMastercarr where you can get a CAD model of their products in a bunch of different formats, but something much simpler (Not that I'm fond of the models they offer; I've seen it complicate more models than I've seen them simplify).

    Maybe I'll play with some HTML later and make a website, just to show what I mean.

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    thunderskunk,

    I'd imagine you found all the Maritool holders that are already in Fusion 360? I use a lot of Techniks holders, and it *would* be nice if they were available to import. As mentioned, there are some other libraries from cutting tool manufacturers that are available, but it's a small percentage. Personally, that hasn't been a big issue for me because I almost always end up straying from the recommended speed, feed, or DOC.

    Even having a searchable public site where people might upload a few holders they have modeled would be handy!

    PM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzert View Post
    Sorry I should have clarified earlier but those are gibbscam specific files and were generated by manual data entry by someone. Even today tools or lists of tools can be saved with a .tlst proprietary file type however that doesn't really help someone using Mastercam or Esprit

    I'm using an old version now, MCX6, and I stopped seeing the new stuff at MCX9, so I don't know what the newer versions include. In MCX6 there are alot of included toolholder libraries.
    capture.jpg
    These are a little generic, and there aren't specialty (like Techniks slimfit, etc), but they are very easy to modify and save to your own custom library.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderskunk View Post
    No worries. I assume there's no way for one file format to work for all CAM systems. I guess I'm thinking of something like McMastercarr where you can get a CAD model of their products in a bunch of different formats, but something much simpler (Not that I'm fond of the models they offer; I've seen it complicate more models than I've seen them simplify).

    Maybe I'll play with some HTML later and make a website, just to show what I mean.
    My earlier post has a link to exactly what it seems you're looking for. It has cad files for about 40 different tooling brands.

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    Hahahahaha,

    Dude, this is the "advanced" manufacturing world! The one with brand new controls on $120k machines that offer a whopping 2MB of memory and a "convenient" USB-1 slot. Want to interact with the machine? Break out that RS232 cable! Better follow that Onnnn NC file name, or the control will choke. All of this wrapped up in a UX that is designed by the only people on the planet who have never seen an iPhone...

    There are people working on a universal tool library thing. Cloud Machining and the like, with full tool libraries and a sort of feed/speed database with direct feedback on cut success to build some intelligence into it all. Having said that, as both a Fusion and NX user (pretty much the extreme ends of the CAM spectrum), neither link into Machining Cloud, so just how practical a schtick is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderskunk View Post
    That’s... fairly surprising to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billetgrip View Post
    My earlier post has a link to exactly what it seems you're looking for. It has cad files for about 40 different tooling brands.
    Downloaded it, tried it, gave up. That is similar to what I was thinking, except it's missing... well, a lot. I don't use any of the brands on there, besides a few Nikken products, and they didn't have the ones I use. It'd be great if they got Regofix to jump on board...



    Quote Originally Posted by precisionmetal View Post
    thunderskunk,

    I'd imagine you found all the Maritool holders that are already in Fusion 360?
    PM
    I did. I do wish they'd finish though; by my rotten luck, I have just about every tool holder type from Maritool except ER... Bah, I gotta get some anyways, so I won't say it didn't help.



    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Hahahahaha,

    Dude, this is the "advanced" manufacturing world! The one with brand new controls on $120k machines that offer a whopping 2MB of memory and a "convenient" USB-1 slot. Want to interact with the machine? Break out that RS232 cable! Better follow that Onnnn NC file name, or the control will choke. All of this wrapped up in a UX that is designed by the only people on the planet who have never seen an iPhone...

    There are people working on a universal tool library thing. Cloud Machining and the like, with full tool libraries and a sort of feed/speed database with direct feedback on cut success to build some intelligence into it all. Having said that, as both a Fusion and NX user (pretty much the extreme ends of the CAM spectrum), neither link into Machining Cloud, so just how practical a schtick is that?

    Quote of the year right there.

    I'm running into this now; I found an Ethernet port on the back of my robodrill. For a solid hour I was really excited. Looked it up in the manual, then asked..."but can I send programs to the machine?" No clear answer. Found a bunch of forum posts on how to connect to the machine on the network. Again, "can I send programs to the machine?" Nothing really solid... I'm 75% sure the answer is yes, but you'd think the description in the manual would say "Embedded Ethernet connection can be used for stuff like putting programs on the machine, tool life monitoring, texting your buddy on the other side of the shop..." Anywho...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderskunk View Post
    That’s... fairly surprising to me.

    Cant imagine it’d be hard... Get a really simple generic website, have a files section, and just have a zip file with all the tools someone’s made from a manufacturer, speeds and feeds included. You could probably pay for the whole thing with a single advertisement. If they’re really generous, you can post some notes based on different lengths and setups or oddball materials.

    How proprietary can the information be if companies post the dimensions, feeds, and speeds right on their website? Maybe I’ll give this a try and see if I get sued.
    You can't be serious right now? Seriously...............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billetgrip View Post
    This is interesting, I'm installing is now. I'm wondering how it's paid for, is it just advertising for the manufacturers, or is it sucking up our data and selling it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    This is interesting, I'm installing is now. I'm wondering how it's paid for, is it just advertising for the manufacturers, or is it sucking up our data and selling it?
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say all of the above is possible.

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    Eventually all the cam vendors will support the ISO standard I mentioned above.

    Currently I know that NX and Edgecam support it, I'm not sure which others, but I notice that Iscar and Tungaloy are now exporting their tool data in this format too.

    Once it has critical mass it will become the defacto standard, I'm pretty certain.


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