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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldepoalo View Post
    Help me understand ( as a CAD CAM vendor ) which licensing is most wanted.

    1- Upgrade model

    You buy the a software version and pay for the next version if you want it.

    2- Maintenance model

    You buy the software and pay a yearly fee to get the next version when available

    3- Subscription model

    You buy the software and pay a yearly fee to get the next version when available


    The upgrade model causes issues for new customers that purchase just before the next version is released.
    At the same time it gives users the flexibility to purchase a new version when they want to vs having to get a new version every year.


    The maintenance model requires a yearly fee to keep current and charges for any down time in maintenance. On the other hand it's license is perpetual so the user keeps using what he purchased.


    The subscription model is a newer concept that I feel has advantages when it comes to using updated software. It's cost is typically less then a maintenance model, the only draw back that I can see is not being a perpetual license.
    1 or 2, never 3.

    The first two give you software that always works. 3 relies on things always working perfectly. Sometimes things go sideways or backwards. What if the software company goes out of business? Nobody there to renew things monthly. Will the software continue to work without a fresh password every month/week/day? What if your ISP goes out of business, and you can't connect for the internet for seven weeks? What if things in the machining market slow to a halt for six months or more, and you're left trying to figure out how to buy a roll of toilet paper after making payroll? When you finally get some paying work in the door, you discover your CAM software doesn't work because all your money went to payroll and you stole a roll of toilet paper from the gas station restroom. Then what? Subscription-based software is a bad business decision, and in my recent search for different CAM software subscription or perpetual license was one of my major points to look at. All software that was subscription-based was immediately moved into the "not no, but hell no" category.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan B View Post
    Look at how McNeel & Associates handles Rhino. It's exactly as you described. Never an additional charge, and 24/7 support for as long as you run the product. And when an update comes out every 5 years or so, it's up to you whether to buy it or not. And guess what? Every version is backwards compatible. What happens if you want to sell it? No problem, all they ask is that you register the sale with them so they can update their records in case the new owner needs support.

    That's how it should be done in the CAM world too.
    Rhino is such an anomaly in the CAD world. It does what it says it does, all while punching WAY above it's weight class with no sneaky licensing tricks. BTW when does Rhino 6 come out?

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Dubeau View Post
    Rhino is such an anomaly in the CAD world. It does what it says it does, all while punching WAY above it's weight class with no sneaky licensing tricks. BTW when does Rhino 6 come out?
    And this is why it will probably be last standing. Integrity brings far more value than hype.
    We are not dumb Autodesk.

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Dubeau View Post
    BTW when does Rhino 6 come out?
    It's getting close. If I had to guess, I would expect to see it by spring. But that's just a guess, don't quote me on it.

    Dan

  7. #25
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    I agree, 1 or 2, never ever 3. Internet's down, you're down. Miss a payment you're down. Company raises prices unreasonably, you're down. Company discontinues the product you're down. Software company goes out of business you're down. CADCAM is mission critical and MUST work all the time no matter what. Then there's the matter of being forced to use the latest version, which comes with most subscription models. The latest version may not work on your OS / hardware; do you want to be FORCED into an unplanned upgrade at the drop of a hat while you're rushing to get a job done? The latest version may have new bugs in features you count on or simply be redesigned to break your workflow. I'm running a three-year-old version of Mastercam because I don't like the new user interface, but with the maintenance model I have that option. I know people running 20+ year old versions because that's what they like and it's suitable enough for their work, and it still runs on 20 year old computers. If I buy and pay for a machine I can use that machine indefinitely until I can no longer maintain it. I expect the same of my software.

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  9. #26
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    Not so funny header currently on the FeatureCAM forum:


    Students and educators: A temporary system issue is impacting new software activations.
    We apologize for the inconvenience and are working to resolve this quickly.
    You can run software in trial mode temporarily and we’ll post more information when the issue is resolved.

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Dubeau View Post
    Rhino is such an anomaly in the CAD world. It does what it says it does, all while punching WAY above it's weight class with no sneaky licensing tricks. BTW when does Rhino 6 come out?
    OneCNC is a CAM system with basic CAD that is like that. You buy it and get updates as long as it is the current version. When the new version comes out you can either buy it or continue on with what you are using and if you decide to change systems you can sell it. Best of all options.

  12. #28
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    seymour
    i used to see you on the forum all the time but i stopped checking in and stopped upgrading in 2014 so i had no idea autodesk bought them until a few months ago when i thought about updating. after reading about it i don't think that will be happening since most of the improvements seem to be eye candy anyway.

  13. #29
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    Screw Autodesk. My perpetual seat of Inventor Pro HSM expired 12-15-17 and so did any more money from me to them. Never quit using Solid Edge for CAD anyway and re-upped with them for the same yearly price on perpetual seats as I had been paying since 2009. SAME PRICE and They make a profit compared to Autodesk who has 10 down quarters in a row. SE wants you as a customer which in my viewpoint is pretty important. I can get by with my level of HSM for years to come now and considering the pace of real feature additions and improvements for the last few years I will not miss much and save money. It also helps tremendously for anger management to not be shackled to these evil people any more.

    I hate the idea of changing things once again but I hate even more for someone to tell me what I am going to do and when and bend over for the new price ram. I have choices and Autodesk is not one of them ever again. You stay with Autodesk knowing what they have done and intend to do you do not deserve any sympathy for your self inflicted wound.

  14. #30
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    Fun fact: TopSolid is a perpetual license. No subscription fees to worry about. Just an optional maintenance fee each year...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopSolidCAM... View Post
    Fun fact: TopSolid is a perpetual license. No subscription fees to worry about. Just an optional maintenance fee each year...
    subtle, really subtle....

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  17. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopSolidCAM... View Post
    Fun fact: TopSolid is a perpetual license. No subscription fees to worry about. Just an optional maintenance fee each year...
    That's hilarious, one post and Banned. I use Topsolid everyday and have for almost 2 years, I wish I could ban it at work!!

  18. #33
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    Hi rickyt:

    I just sent you a PM with my contact information. We have a couple of seats of TopSolid here, and like it a lot for the sort of work we do. I will try to help you if you want (and if I can!). Money-back guarantee....! LOL

    Cheers, Brian

  19. #34
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    The interesting thing about a perpetual license is that, for some types of software, underlying OS changes/"improvements" will kill a program that 'worked just fine yesterday' on the same computer. Should software guys be on the hook for fixing an issue that's not theirs? And should we have to pay for maintenance on the hunk of code that isn't really the one that needs maintenance? Both happen with disturbing regularity in one family of (specialty but non-machining) software I use. And I too have legacy OS computers just to run some programs -- a key one is DOS only, and I just put together a brand-new computer to use it last year.

    Chip

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  21. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie gary View Post
    1 or 2, never 3.

    The first two give you software that always works. 3 relies on things always working perfectly. Sometimes things go sideways or backwards. What if the software company goes out of business? Nobody there to renew things monthly. Will the software continue to work without a fresh password every month/week/day? What if your ISP goes out of business, and you can't connect for the internet for seven weeks? What if things in the machining market slow to a halt for six months or more, and you're left trying to figure out how to buy a roll of toilet paper after making payroll? When you finally get some paying work in the door, you discover your CAM software doesn't work because all your money went to payroll and you stole a roll of toilet paper from the gas station restroom. Then what? Subscription-based software is a bad business decision, and in my recent search for different CAM software subscription or perpetual license was one of my major points to look at. All software that was subscription-based was immediately moved into the "not no, but hell no" category.
    I like buying the software outright and being left alone to enjoy it and use it. There shouldn't be anything to maintenance, it should be plug and play from day one until you decide not to. I purchased BobCAD V25 when it first came out a little over 5 years ago, and within just a few months starting getting the annoying phone sales calls and emails trying to get you to upgrade to the next version. From the user standpoint, there is nothing you can improve in the software to warrant anyone to keep getting the upgrades every 6 months or year. I bought it to program my parts, if in 10 years it still does that, there isn't anything beneficial you can offer me. I have a 2005 version of Solidworks. Nothing about the 2018 version makes me need to buy it, mine still works fine.
    I can just picture the software geeks sitting around getting all giggly about some new "upgrade" they created and tell all the sales guys to burn the phones up trying to pedal this newest widget. Unfortunately, most of those widgets are meaningless and pointless to actual machinists and users. You aren't going to improve the function and ability of your software in just one year or even 5 years enough to make anyone want or need to upgrade. If you do, it doesn't say much about their previous version. And these guys think each new version sends the previous version back to the Stone Age, but it just doesn't. My BobCAD V25 is still great and does the job I purchased it for without issue.

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