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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    Heres all of Autodesk for the same period, I couldn't find numbers on Fusion alone. I've inserted your metrics below in the 3rd row...so if SolidWorks is 'crashing' then Autodesk has been nuked. (in millions of USD)

    2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018
    $1,239 $1,537 $1,840 $2,172 $2,315 $1,714 $1,952 $2,216 $2,312 $2,274 $2,512 $2,504 $2,031 $2,057
    $298 $303 $332 $143 -$601 $238 $264 $96 -$38 $238 -$8 -$473 $26

    ....can't wait for the 'ya but' on this one
    Autodesk reports their quarters kinda weird, or at least the automated sites list them oddly. Their revenue last year was $2.53B, or a 24.95% YoY increase over the previous year. This:

    - Brings Autodesk back to pre-subscription announcement revenues.
    - Beats the snot out of SolidWork's 6% year over year growth.

    Let's compare some other suppliers in the machine tool business for their 2017 to 2018 revenue growth, shall we?

    Fanuc Machine Tools DMG Mori Siemens PLM Renishaw Autodesk SolidWorks
    102.5% 16.9% 30.1% 13.9% 24.95% 6%

    So yea, when everyone else in the industry is seeing a minimum of double digit growth, and you phone in a 6%? That is absolutely not good.

    And from an investor standpoint, the big story is that Autodesk just (very painfully) moved their business to the revenue model that simply dominates virtually every other software sector, while SolidWorks is stuck in a high-priced model. And Autodesk also has a product that does a huge portion of what the SolidWorks moneymaker does, for 1/20th the price, that anyone can get instantly with a credit card.

    So yes, this is a crash.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Autodesk reports their quarters kinda weird,
    .......lol

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    .......lol
    Go LOL yourself dude. Your numbers are flat out wrong. Autodesk did $2.5B in revenue for 2018, $500M less than what you posted.

    SolidWorks had a garbage year compared to *everyone else* in the industry. Full fucking stop.

    You called me a nutbag, but the crazy insane thing I'm saying is that CAD/CAM software is just going to move to the same business model as literally every other class of software. Nobody buys Office, or Photoshop, or Oracle Databases, or their niche vertical app for running the dentists office (see: SalesForce). Somehow I'm fucking nutty to think CAD/CAM is so special as to not have this happen as well? It already is.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Go LOL yourself dude. Your numbers are flat out wrong. Autodesk did $2.5B in revenue for 2018, $500M less than what you posted.

    SolidWorks had a garbage year compared to *everyone else* in the industry. Full fucking stop.

    You called me a nutbag, but the crazy insane thing I'm saying is that CAD/CAM software is just going to move to the same business model as literally every other class of software. Nobody buys Office, or Photoshop, or Oracle Databases, or their niche vertical app for running the dentists office (see: SalesForce). Somehow I'm fucking nutty to think CAD/CAM is so special as to not have this happen as well? It already is.
    Why are you playing his game? You aren't winning and you don't need to win his game.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenton View Post
    Why are you playing his game? You aren't winning and you don't need to win his game.
    Everyone needs a hobby!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Go LOL yourself dude. Your numbers are flat out wrong. Autodesk did $2.5B in revenue for 2018, $500M less than what you posted.

    SolidWorks had a garbage year compared to *everyone else* in the industry. Full fucking stop.

    You called me a nutbag, but the crazy insane thing I'm saying is that CAD/CAM software is just going to move to the same business model as literally every other class of software. Nobody buys Office, or Photoshop, or Oracle Databases, or their niche vertical app for running the dentists office (see: SalesForce). Somehow I'm fucking nutty to think CAD/CAM is so special as to not have this happen as well? It already is.
    I will say, I think your right. I will also say, I fucking hate it.

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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Everyone needs a hobby!
    I though you were doing pretty well with high accuracy modes. You get bored?
    (not sure I have ever made a post that was so extremely truthful, and a joke at the same time?) LOL

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I though you were doing pretty well with high accuracy modes. You get bored?
    (not sure I have ever made a post that was so extremely truthful, and a joke at the same time?) LOL
    That seems mostly figured out now, just waiting for everyone to get V10 of the firmware and the new Quick Settings system. The factory stuff is pretty solid, and it is easy to tune stuff as needed.

    Now I'm onto a big production job (like 750k per year) that has a tricky 4th axis swarf move, so working on inverse time feed cutting in production. Turns out, 4th axis motion sucks to program and run!

    (And oh, by the way - the really big, brand name company I'm working for now? We trade Fusion files back and forth all the time to hack on stuff and experiment before rolling changes into the main SolidWorks files... engineers/designers there use Fusion like a quick-n-dirty sketchbook without all the encumbrances of the PDM system, and they can all get a seat with a credit card and no procurement bullshit).

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    That seems mostly figured out now, just waiting for everyone to get V10 of the firmware and the new Quick Settings system. The factory stuff is pretty solid, and it is easy to tune stuff as needed.

    Now I'm onto a big production job (like 750k per year) that has a tricky 4th axis swarf move, so working on inverse time feed cutting in production. Turns out, 4th axis motion sucks to program and run!

    (And oh, by the way - the really big, brand name company I'm working for now? We trade Fusion files back and forth all the time to hack on stuff and experiment before rolling changes into the main SolidWorks files... engineers/designers there use Fusion like a quick-n-dirty sketchbook without all the encumbrances of the PDM system, and they can all get a seat with a credit card and no procurement bullshit).
    Maybe in Fusion. It is a piece of cake with my perpetual seat of FeatureCAM.
    Disclaimer: I don't even know what inverse time is. But, 4th axis swarf is cake.
    I saw your IG post, and was like: "WTF is inverse time?!" LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Maybe in Fusion. It is a piece of cake with my perpetual seat of FeatureCAM.
    Disclaimer: I don't even know what inverse time is. But, 4th axis swarf is cake.
    I saw your IG post, and was like: "WTF is inverse time?!" LOL
    This wasn't Fusion, this was done in NX.

    The programing problem was that the surface was done in SolidWorks and wasn't very well formed, while the design was committed and marketing stuff has been shot. All the CAM software wants to use the UV lines on a surface to tell it which way to point the tool. The SW surface was a mess and even the advanced CAM algorithms shit the bed trying to cut it. So we used some trickery in NX to drive a very accurate 4th axis swarf cut using an modeled assembly and some Python scripting to feed a Generic Motion operation. That worked beautifully and gave us extremely clean code.

    The problem is that literally no machine has been able to execute it without shitting the bed at minor inflection points across a relatively gentle angle change. Something like

    X1.000 Y0.000 A21.00
    X1.005 Y0.002 A20.9
    X1.010 Y0.004 A21.00

    We did it on my Speedio with the Sankyo, the factory Speedio with the new Yukiwa Direct Drive, a Robodril with the DDR, and another shop modified the surface and programmed it in MasterCAM and their DMG NHX4000. Every single machine's rotary either gouged the part or left a ridge at the points where the rotary had to change direction in a subtle way. Not much (after tuning backlash adjustments and the like, we got the ridge/gouge to be 0.0005" deviations), but enough that it would never pass muster for a Class-A consumer part surface.

    Finally solved it by going through the code manually and adding simple G03 arcs at the inflection points - get the cutter off the part, twiddle the rotary the way an old codger on a Bridgeport would get backlash out before moving into a cut, and arcing the end mill back into the cut.

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  13. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    This wasn't Fusion, this was done in NX.

    The programing problem was that the surface was done in SolidWorks and wasn't very well formed, while the design was committed and marketing stuff has been shot. All the CAM software wants to use the UV lines on a surface to tell it which way to point the tool. The SW surface was a mess and even the advanced CAM algorithms shit the bed trying to cut it. So we used some trickery in NX to drive a very accurate 4th axis swarf cut using an modeled assembly and some Python scripting to feed a Generic Motion operation. That worked beautifully and gave us extremely clean code.

    The problem is that literally no machine has been able to execute it without shitting the bed at minor inflection points across a relatively gentle angle change. Something like

    X1.000 Y0.000 A21.00
    X1.005 Y0.002 A20.9
    X1.010 Y0.004 A21.00

    We did it on my Speedio with the Sankyo, the factory Speedio with the new Yukiwa Direct Drive, a Robodril with the DDR, and another shop modified the surface and programmed it in MasterCAM and their DMG NHX4000. Every single machine's rotary either gouged the part or left a ridge at the points where the rotary had to change direction in a subtle way. Not much (after tuning backlash adjustments and the like, we got the ridge/gouge to be 0.0005" deviations), but enough that it would never pass muster for a Class-A consumer part surface.

    Finally solved it by going through the code manually and adding simple G03 arcs at the inflection points - get the cutter off the part, twiddle the rotary the way an old codger on a Bridgeport would get backlash out before moving into a cut, and arcing the end mill back into the cut.
    You are a nerd. I mean that in a very respectful and complimenting way!

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