90-120K Mastercam aerospace level mill programmer in Watertown WI, 5K referral bonus

(5K referral bonus for successfully hired and evaluated @60 day candidate)

Make some of the most respected firearms parts in the firearms industry out of 7075-T6, 6061-T6, 17-4 SS. Knowledge of Fanuc 3 and 4 axis, Mastercam 2020, and Renishaw in process probe pickups and load error checks in Doosan is required. We also have one Mazak Matrix 4th axis mill and a hurco 5 axis which is rarely used. This job is programming and managing 2 mill operators.

We're offering $90-120K (skill evaluation dependent) Plus health & dental insurance, relocation assistance. vacation etc to a guy who is a master mill programmer, but who also can be a team player, take directives from management like an officer in the Army (a can do yes man / company and team guy), program the job to objectives and not take it diagonally in his own direction to the companies detriment. We pay programmers here for a product ( jobs which run to quality and are efficient and fully programmed and saved in a manner that allows them to be re-acquired at a later date by a different setup person, without conversation with the original programmer). Your work product is a stream of packaged run-ready jobs.

We do not want to hire guys like who are known to have xxxxty attitudes.

The applicant has to be an adult, possessing drive, work ethic and a thick skin.


We could hire two worthless 60K guys, or one good, cooperative $90-120K guy, and we want the one guy who can outwork the two 60K wastes of time.

I'm placing this as a challenge and industry callout to someone who can prove good Mastercam programmers exist on this continent of North America.

To apply send a resume to [email protected] with a custom written cover letter describing why you are a good fit for this position. Career requires location work at Watertown WI at our facility.

The HR guys are looking forward to speaking with the next winner that we bring into our winning team.

Just a comment ....i see your evaluating at 60 days which i think is good, anyone you hire will not have come from a shop operating the same machines ( highly unlikely ) so there will be a learning curve for the person to get the output for what you would like, Machine definitions will be different.

As for thick skin i hate that term the person hiring should be reasonable and also the employee a bunch of thick-skinned people would feel like a union shop with hard management and hard inflexible bitching employees two opposing forces. It should be collaborative effort to meet the specification required. Throwing money around won't get you a good shop.Fish stinks from the head down in other words the how the management acts determines to an extent what attitude the shop has.Army attitude..who wants to work in the army? A bunch of drones.

Standard operating procedures, mastercam Level layout s OP1 OP2 etc help with communicating between the programer and operator, inserted notes hints tips also help with intent of the programer. The operator should be free to alter feeds if he can see a need to up them or lower them so final program would be from the operator not the cam guy, its only the start point from the cam guy.

Also why bother with HR guys i have found they don't really know what a machinist is and what a potential person is capable of, only can look to see if the employee has done the same before, which anyone can do.
No stretch of skills determination can be made with them...( ie can the person do something different from before ) i would not have done half the things i have done if i had gone through a HR person.

Also put the 5K into training instead of a finders fee, the employee surely will appreciate your investing in them not just sucking out what you can get on training they have done before.

Anyhow that's my two cents worth from far away, all the best.

I don't think he needs advice on hiring [emoji23]

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as9100d said:

I don't think he needs advice on hiring [emoji23]

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I disagree. The job sounds absurdly basic for the money they're offering. That makes me think the problem is more with the person sorting through the resumes, than the people submitting them. The OP has clearly had at least one, probably several, programmers who didn't work out. My guess is that the his company is too focused on paper qualifications, and not looking at actual skills. CNC programming and resume writing are completely unrelated skills. HR people prefer the latter. That doesn't seem to have worked out for the OP so far. I've seen some great resumes from people who were useless. I think the best thing any shop can do is take the entire hiring process away from HR, and give it to someone who actually knows the job. I don't mean give the shop manager a choice between the two people HR allowed him to talk to. I mean keep HR out of it completely. At least for highly skilled positions.

Evenglischatiest said:

I disagree. The job sounds absurdly basic for the money they're offering. That makes me think the problem is more with the person sorting through the resumes, than the people submitting them. The OP has clearly had at least one, probably several, programmers who didn't work out. My guess is that the his company is too focused on paper qualifications, and not looking at actual skills. CNC programming and resume writing are completely unrelated skills. HR people prefer the latter. That doesn't seem to have worked out for the OP so far. I've seen some great resumes from people who were useless. I think the best thing any shop can do is take the entire hiring process away from HR, and give it to someone who actually knows the job. I don't mean give the shop manager a choice between the two people HR allowed him to talk to. I mean keep HR out of it completely. At least for highly skilled positions.

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I pay what he's paying and retain my employees.....just saying.

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$100k+ in Arkansas? Now that's a job you could raise a family on. I know of one or two guys around here making that kind of money, but they're doing 5 axis mills, mill-turns, and 9 axis Swiss. The OP's job might go as high as $70-80k here in Santa Barbara, where the median house price is $1.5 million, and gas is still over $3 a gallon.

I greatly respect you both for paying that high, and I've seen plenty of reasons to believe the right person is worth it. But the OP's ad stuck me more as desperation than loyalty to good employees. It sounds like he's been stuck with some real dead weight in the recent past. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Regardless, I wish him the best of luck.

Evenglischatiest said:

I disagree. The job sounds absurdly basic for the money they're offering. That makes me think the problem is more with the person sorting through the resumes, than the people submitting them. The OP has clearly had at least one, probably several, programmers who didn't work out. My guess is that the his company is too focused on paper qualifications, and not looking at actual skills. CNC programming and resume writing are completely unrelated skills. HR people prefer the latter. That doesn't seem to have worked out for the OP so far. I've seen some great resumes from people who were useless. I think the best thing any shop can do is take the entire hiring process away from HR, and give it to someone who actually knows the job. I don't mean give the shop manager a choice between the two people HR allowed him to talk to. I mean keep HR out of it completely. At least for highly skilled positions.

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I'll put it in easier terms. What the OP is saying is he DOESNT WANT A HACK. He wants a professional. There hard to find and when there found they make good money. Any real programmer(real ones have cnc set-up experience) with real experience can do exactly whats he is wanting in just a week or less on any machine

so if he finds someone at the top of the tree, done his time so to speak who can command anything he wants, why is the dude going to leave a high paying job for his place...
and your only at your peak for a short time, then you have to retrain again to keep at the top.
Still won't need a hr person in that scenario.

for example okuma seems to have dropped the old fanuc programming of past at least 10 years ago, the turning and mills are programmed differently anyhow thats what i have seen on machines out here.

a ten year old machine is no where near new....

Is there an example of a new okuma with a fanuc control? maybe i have not seen it and i am wrong possibly and people have just ordered different machines that i have happened to see, use.

Street said:

so if he finds someone at the top of the tree, done his time so to speak who can command anything he wants, why is the dude going to leave a high paying job for his place...
and your only at your peak for a short time, then you have to retrain again to keep at the top.
Still won't need a hr person in that scenario.

for example okuma seems to have dropped the old fanuc programming of past at least 10 years ago, the turning and mills are programmed differently anyhow thats what i have seen on machines out here.

a ten year old machine is no where near new....

Is there an example of a new okuma with a fanuc control? maybe i have not seen it and i am wrong possibly and people have just ordered different machines that i have happened to see, use.

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Not everyone leaves a high paying job for a high paying job.... Most of my top employees are folks that had shops but sucked as business owners but are wizard machinists. They deserve top machinist/programmer pay but not business owner pay...


I get the thick skin requirement also. We let people go that are bad apples and have chips on their shoulders. If you can't take the occasional spray of liquid ass in the shop then you wouldn't be a good fit in my shop. Gotta have thick skin and that's a precursor to being able to take constructive criticism.....


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as9100d said:

Not everyone leaves a high paying job for a high paying job.... Most of my top employees are folks that had shops but sucked as business owners but are wizard machinists. They deserve top machinist/programmer pay but not business owner pay...


I get the thick skin requirement also. We let people go that are bad apples and have chips on their shoulders. If you can't take the occasional spray of liquid ass in the shop then you wouldn't be a good fit in my shop. Gotta have thick skin and that's a precursor to being able to take constructive criticism.....


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I left my last, very well paying job, in the late 80's. The old guy that owned the shop died and someone convinced his widow that the way the shop had been running was all wrong. She ended up hiring 11 advisors, a couple local and others farther off, one in Hawaii. Before I gould order anything over $100. We had to have a meeting to explain what they were and why we needed them, ans an assortment of other new policies, I got to the point where I would puke all over the ground before I could get in the truck to go to work.

Guys,

Keep in mind the OP's not spamming a general forum. He made a legitimate post in the Careers section.

I would apply myself, but there's no question I have a shitty attitude.

I see nuthin' wrong with the OP's post...................wants a guy that can hit the ground runnin'.....................and that pay for 'sconnie ain't too bad eeder der guy.

Street said:

Just a comment ....i see your evaluating at 60 days which i think is good, anyone you hire will not have come from a shop operating the same machines ( highly unlikely ) so there will be a learning curve for the person to get the output for what you would like, Machine definitions will be different.

As for thick skin i hate that term the person hiring should be reasonable and also the employee a bunch of thick-skinned people would feel like a union shop with hard management and hard inflexible bitching employees two opposing forces. It should be collaborative effort to meet the specification required. Throwing money around won't get you a good shop.Fish stinks from the head down in other words the how the management acts determines to an extent what attitude the shop has.Army attitude..who wants to work in the army? A bunch of drones.

Standard operating procedures, mastercam Level layout s OP1 OP2 etc help with communicating between the programer and operator, inserted notes hints tips also help with intent of the programer. The operator should be free to alter feeds if he can see a need to up them or lower them so final program would be from the operator not the cam guy, its only the start point from the cam guy.

Also why bother with HR guys i have found they don't really know what a machinist is and what a potential person is capable of, only can look to see if the employee has done the same before, which anyone can do.
No stretch of skills determination can be made with them...( ie can the person do something different from before ) i would not have done half the things i have done if i had gone through a HR person.

Also put the 5K into training instead of a finders fee, the employee surely will appreciate your investing in them not just sucking out what you can get on training they have done before.

Anyhow that's my two cents worth from far away, all the best.

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The programmer is like a company rendering a product (the work). The company he works for is like a customer. If the programmer can't respond to the needs of the customer, the customer should find another company to do business with.

If the employee needs training, he's probably not a good fit. This is an expert level job. Not entry level.

david n said:

I see nuthin' wrong with the OP's post...................wants a guy that can hit the ground runnin'.....................and that pay for 'sconnie ain't too bad eeder der guy.

Click to expand...

That's the way I see it. And hopefully eventually we're not in as urgent of a position and we can move some employees in a training program and do some cross training so we don't need guys who can hit the ground running as badly.

Larry Dickman said:

Guys,

Keep in mind the OP's not spamming a general forum. He made a legitimate post in the Careers section.

I would apply myself, but there's no question I have a shitty attitude.

Click to expand...

Well honesty is nice. I'm more used to guys saying they can settup machines and then 3 months later we have the world's best paid operator who never settup a machine. It's a weird time. Guys are confident about things they don't know, and guys who can do it, aren't very available.

Evenglischatiest said:

$100k+ in Arkansas? Now that's a job you could raise a family on. I know of one or two guys around here making that kind of money, but they're doing 5 axis mills, mill-turns, and 9 axis Swiss. The OP's job might go as high as $70-80k here in Santa Barbara, where the median house price is $1.5 million, and gas is still over $3 a gallon.

I greatly respect you both for paying that high, and I've seen plenty of reasons to believe the right person is worth it. But the OP's ad stuck me more as desperation than loyalty to good employees. It sounds like he's been stuck with some real dead weight in the recent past. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Regardless, I wish him the best of luck.

Click to expand...

I own a company, I can do things, but I'm working 72 hours a week, it's Saturday I'm at work, Memorial day I'll be at work. If I sound desperate it's because my company is successful and I can't keep up with it. I took jobs in Iraq for gunfighters and Blackwater, Triple Canopy, and SOC tried to scare us too more so Blackwater and TC than the former. But I wanted the jobs anyway because I knew I could do that. I have a feeling the guys who can do the job shouldn't be scared off by realizing the work is needed. The guys who do scare off, aren't right for the job- that's the point of not blowing sunshine up the applicants ass.

One of the recent applicants claimed to be working 72, desiring time with his family. He didn't show up for his interview. We were asking for 45. I don't quite understand that. I'm guessing his resume was made up because we were offering more pay for less time. What kind of professional schedules an interview at a time of his convenience and then doesn't show up to it? That's embarrassing.

Evenglischatiest said:

I disagree. The job sounds absurdly basic for the money they're offering. That makes me think the problem is more with the person sorting through the resumes, than the people submitting them. The OP has clearly had at least one, probably several, programmers who didn't work out. My guess is that the his company is too focused on paper qualifications, and not looking at actual skills. CNC programming and resume writing are completely unrelated skills. HR people prefer the latter. That doesn't seem to have worked out for the OP so far. I've seen some great resumes from people who were useless. I think the best thing any shop can do is take the entire hiring process away from HR, and give it to someone who actually knows the job. I don't mean give the shop manager a choice between the two people HR allowed him to talk to. I mean keep HR out of it completely. At least for highly skilled positions.

Click to expand...

I have a highly motivated applicant with 2 years of mastercam experience right now to interview monday. I'm hoping he's the rain man, because then we'll have a 6 figure guy who only has 2 years of experience. I don't care if God minted a programmer this minute. If he can efficiently manage the software like a professional, I guess that's all we needed.

I am doing training in mastercam myself so don't predict to know it all but have been in various industries prior, starting at the start and working up. whenever you start i have always found you need to work up to meet the needs, so thats why i suggested training. even when mastercam updates new tool paths come up as well.
The analogy of customer / being the business is valid but sometimes the customer is not always right as they can twist you up in circles sometimes there is more than one way to skin a cat know to pick the best way.

Anyhow wonder if he knows how to pencil in a constrained zone ie a defined box? to do a feature as the pencil can do crazy things when not constrained (3d curves)

Or what about making up your own drive/control surface in case the results of machining leave surface imperfections, the model may look ok but won't work with mastercam this is on curved surfaces again. Used to overrun the edge of a surface.


Anyone else know little tricks that can be used to determine skill level and knowledge of the applicant.

In production parts we avoid 3D whenever possible. It's a time suck so you want to make the part by the most time efficient means possible.