I am hesitant about criticizing my school. How much am I allowed to learn on the job?
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    Question I am hesitant about criticizing my school. How much am I allowed to learn on the job?

    How do I find an opportunity that will allow me to learn on the job? I am afraid of criticizing the teaching methods at my school so I figure if I can do well enough I can find a job I am slightly overqualified for so that I can be productive while learning new things. How easy is it to find a job like this in Canada?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Rayfield View Post
    How do I find an opportunity that will allow me to learn on the job? I am afraid of criticizing the teaching methods at my school so I figure if I can do well enough I can find a job I am slightly overqualified for so that I can be productive while learning new things. How easy is it to find a job like this in Canada?
    When you are young, You already know it all.
    It takes a few years to figure out that a "certificate" unlocks doors that will stay shuttered and closed without.

    Ask your self, 'If I'm so smart, why am I asking these questions??"

    Try to get the most from today's opportunities. Put IN more than you expect to take out. You will be amazed!
    W

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    Your teachers are smarter than you as they have a job. What you make of your education is up to you not your teachers, so get used to doing the drill->Work..
    You have to be trusted to do a fair days work to keep a job..You have to seem polite and responsible to get in the door of a decent job. You have to do better than the crew to get the next higher job.
    The machine trade is full of operators running CNC at lower than what I think is fair, perhaps a few bucks over flipping burgers if lucky.that is life..better machinist jobs pay 20 to $40 per hour but you have to be well polished to get $30+.
    First off are you putting in two hours on home work? The guys and gals who do will get the best jobs first.

    Green horn, likely you are not really overqualified for anything...go figure.

    Still you show some merit to ask and this is the place to ask. Good luck and good wishes, we will help you all we can.

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    Jeeze, guys ... unless I am reading this wrong, he wants to leave the school to work in a shop.

    He would learn more in a shop and it would be real stuff, but I dunno if that is the best idea these days. People who can't judge skills go by certificates, so .... dunno. Maybe not a great idea.

    Work in a shop part-time ?

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    Stuck in a 2x4 12.00 an hour job for six years is not good advice. IMHO.

    legislation to increase Ontario’s general minimum wage from $11.60 per hour to $14

    Average Ontario Machine Operator salary: $12.47 per hour. Data comes from 125 real salaries collected directly from employees and jobs on Indeed. and other sources say $18.50

    flipping burgers.
    McDonald's Salaries in Ontario | Indeed.com

    if he is hard pressed hit the street.. if not he/she should finish school IMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Jeeze, guys ... unless I am reading this wrong, he wants to leave the school to work in a shop.

    He would learn more in a shop and it would be real stuff, but I dunno if that is the best idea these days. People who can't judge skills go by certificates, so .... dunno. Maybe not a great idea.

    Work in a shop part-time ?
    No I meant that I should finish the school as best I can without getting into any arguments and get the best job I can even though I could probably be better if they taught in ways I wish they taught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Rayfield View Post
    No I meant that I should finish the school as best I can without getting into any arguments and get the best job I can even though I could probably be better if they taught in ways I wish they taught.
    Perhaps your true vocation is in education reform! God knows we need it.

    BS= Bull Shyte ,MS = More Shyte PhD = Piled higher and Deeper.

    Common sense is getting very uncommon

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    Sounds like you should be attending a school with a co-op program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Rayfield View Post
    No I meant that I should finish the school as best I can without getting into any arguments and get the best job I can even though I could probably be better if they taught in ways I wish they taught.
    If you are past age fifteen and still have to ask, you may not be able to use the answer.

    Have a look at some of the most successful people around you or in the world listings of the wealthy.

    Did they get that way because they sat in a chair for four years to earn a "USDA Choice" ground-round meat quality stamp?

    Or because they were driven to chase-up whatever it was they needed to know from wherever it was to be found? Forever, any university Degree - none, one, or "many" only incidental?

    Bill Gates is a "college dropout". Because he was too smart to waste his time. Not because he was too stupid to pass the courses.

    There's a guy in Hong Kong who teases and tries to sell me real estate. I kid him back that he already knows I couldn't afford the cost of the "walk through" inspection!

    K.S is no college dropout. He is a HIGH SCHOOL dropout. Whip smart and hard-driving despite a lovely and unpretentious manner. Needed to know accounting to file business financial returns? Found a book and taught himself. Didn't retire at age 65. 89 years young, rather. He had clocked nearly three "normal" lifetimes into those years, had he been "on the clock". At first, because he HAD to. Later because he greatly enjoyed what he had chosen to do.

    Can others do that? Many have, in their own way. It isn't really "all about the money". That will just "be there", and always "enough" of it, if you but get the basics right.

    Basics?"

    The one I consider most important and as the greatest percentage of my lifetime cumulative compensation wasn't ever even taxable, any of many countries. It has been the quality of the mentors to be learned from, and how fast and well one can do that - then make use of what has been learned. Bank that. Repeat. Then pass it on.

    Sure enough, it is like planting a crop. It jest grows.

    But "if you have to ask...."

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    If you have to ask, you may not be able to use the answer. Have a look at some of the most successful people around you or in the world listings of the wealthy.

    Did they get that way because they sat in a chair for four years to earn a USDA choice hamburger stamp?


    Or because they were driven to chase-up whatever it was they needed to know from wherever it was to be found? Forever.

    Bill Gates is a "college dropout". Because he was too smart to waste his time. Not because he was too stupid to pass the courses.

    There's a guy in Hong Kong who teases and tries to sell me real estate. I kid him back that he already knows I couldn't afford the cost of the "walk through" inspection!

    K.S is no college dropout. He is a HIGH SCHOOL dropout. Whip smart and hard-driving despite a lovely and unpretentious manner, though. Didn't retire at age 65. 89 years young, rather.

    Can others do that?

    "if you have to ask...."
    Bill.

    You are yelling into the wind with this one!

    Really? Who is your audience to such dribble?

    Who is this guy in Hong Kong that fleeces you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Bill.

    You are yelling into the wind with this one!

    Really? Who is your audience to such dribble?

    Who is this guy in Hong Kong that fleeces you?
    K.S.? Just another polymath and "autodidact", is all. You bump into all sorts, Hong Kong Institute of Directors (former "Fellow")

    The old chum who introduced us first go (same again, himself and a "Distinguished Fellow", non-executive Director of over a hundred other companies) had known him 30 years or so, presented ME as "the world's most accomplished autodidact".

    I said "Not YET, I am not. But I am studying on it!". And we got along rather well!

    Mind, Cheung Kong Holdings WAS one helluva lot larger that our Conducive Group (Asia) Limited, even "back in the day."

    But all of our Directors were already retired from "Big Corp" boardrooms by age 50. It was no longer about the money. We just wanted to do interesting things as struck our fancy rather than grow mold on our brains. Or asses.


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    Put together a “I am a student” resume.

    Visit any and all of the HR departments of prospective employers. Ask if they could suggest any enhancements or modifications to your studies.

    Pay attention to what they say. Listen between the lines.

    If any sort of job is offered, don’t immediately accept it, unless it puts you at your nation’s median income (half make less, half make more).

    You will flatter anyone you meet by asking for their opinion, unless they are the sort of people you need to avoid.

    Good Luck!

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    Default Billionaire Simplot left home at 14

    Billionaire J.R. Simplot, potato farmer and investor, dies at 99 | Business News | heraldextra.com

    Got into an argument with father and left home at 14. Millionaire at 30.

    Here’s just a bit of his brilliance:
    John Richard Simplot was born Jan. 4, 1909, in Dubuque, Iowa, and raised on a farm with four siblings near the south-central Idaho town of Burley. He left home at 14 after his father would not let him attend a basketball game, the final straw of many disagreements between them. His mother gave him four $20 gold coins, and he moved to a hotel in Declo, Idaho, where he found work in the potato-sorting workhouses.

    He showed an early flair for business by making a deal with teachers boarding at the hotel who were paid in interest-bearing scrip, or interim money. He bought the scrip at 50 cents on the dollar, raising enough capital to use as bank-loan collateral to buy 600 hogs at $1 each...

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    Are you paying for this education ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Rayfield View Post
    How do I find an opportunity that will allow me to learn on the job? I am afraid of criticizing the teaching methods at my school so I figure if I can do well enough I can find a job I am slightly overqualified for so that I can be productive while learning new things. How easy is it to find a job like this in Canada?
    If the school you are going to is anything like most of them I have experienced here in the U.S......it should be considered a starting point. There was a percentage of things they taught that were just outright wrong, outdated, irrelevant, or just one way of doing something that could be done 15 other ways. Schools are there to get you started (some are certainly better at it than others).....not to impart every piece of knowledge you will ever need. The REAL learning starts when you get a job.....why wait? BTW.....you are allowed to learn everything and i would look for a job you are slightly UNDER qualified for, you will learn more.
    I find it curious you say you dont want to criticize the school you are attending. Why not?

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    Jobs are tough in Canada, good jobs even tougher. I hope that gets better but don't hold your breath.
    How old are you. Do you get decent grades. Is there a personal problem. would going to another school help, Perhaps a trade school?

    QT Ontario law[ The minimum age for working in Ontario is 14 years for most types of work. However, 14-, 15-, 16- and 17-year-olds are not to be employed during school hours unless they have been excused from school attendance under provisions of Ontario's Education Act.]

    When you are 21 you will/may look back and see this differently. Schools have consolers who are paid to help students with problem.. perhaps private message me if you cant tell what is really wrong. But I will be off this afternoon for a week or two hunting so will not be on the grid for much/most of that time. See kelllyroadcamp.com for where I will be hunting.

    Criticize the school to the consolers, Yes... One example we took Nate to a great Boy Scout camp this summer. He seemed to be having a great time catching fish and turtles, taking hikes, sleeping in his own tent..Nate is hot tempered and on the third day decided to fight two other guys.. this was his third offense to camp rules and so he got the boot. His last words at camp: "This camp has too many rules and I hate it so I am never coming back." Don't be Nate. don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

    On your own you can start a business but that takes a few bucks to do.You might go to an industrial area and knock on doors " I'm Charley Brown and I want to quit school and get into the machine trade, Might you give me a job perhaps cleaning johns and sweeping floors a start? What advice can you give me....try this and you might get an answer or two.

    Agree schools seem to waste a lot of time and some teachers are way off base and then some are great people/teachers just like the real world about 10% are not good at their job.

    Buck
    Last edited by michiganbuck; 11-14-2018 at 10:34 AM.

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    Here is my contribution to your future. Doesn't Canada, as a former English colony have formal government run apprenticeship programmes? If it does, become an apprentice fitter and turner or tool-and-die-maker. You will get on the job experience and training, and get sent to college. Outside the US it is virtually impossible to be hired as an artisan/journeyman without being a 'time-served' artisan in a recognised appprenticeship. If you do the fitter and turner route, make sure it is in a big machine-shop where you will get a lot of machining experience. Doing it in a factory(as I did) you will do more 'fitting' than 'turning' which is not as good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Rayfield View Post
    No I meant that I should finish the school as best I can without getting into any arguments and get the best job I can even though I could probably be better if they taught in ways I wish they taught.
    I consider discussions with teachers about teaching methods to be part of the education. No need to get into an argument, but if you could describe the problem from your point of view, in a way that doesn't threaten them, they might be receptive. A teacher interested in feedback and improving their craft certainly will, the others, not so much. They're to be avoided whenever possible.

    My own experience as a rookie teacher was that I was clueless as to how I came across to the students and was hungry for feedback. The students who were engaged (you are) gave it, if they had time, and it was very helpful.

    Examples of feedback that might yield positive results could begin with:

    I'm having trouble learning this way. (The more specific the instance, the better.) I learn best when....

    Or, when you do....., I feel ...., I have trouble with...,

    Prob best stated in private, unless the majority of the class is obviously feeling the same way.

    It's all "counseling-speak" but it often works, which is all you can hope for. Arguments generally don't, but you already know this.

    Good luck, keep us posted.

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    I had some serious problems in school, it is a wonder that I made it through and somehow made a success of my life.
    Had I talked to the consolers or somebody my life may have been better/easier.
    Don't expect all teachers to be to your pleasure. Much of life will not be to your pleasure and some how you have make best of what comes down the pike.


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