1943 Sidney 16x54 Refurb - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Coolant system is working. It's not 100% ideal as it's only a 110v pump, and running off a separate circuit. Works fine though. Has enough pressure to actually cause water to leak out of the knockoff loc-line (bought for something else. Don't buy cheap loc-line.) I needed an armored hose and spotted this dishwasher hose in the junk pile. Works just perfectly. All parts for the coolant system were already on hand, so no added expense there.





    And the apron got put back together. And a coat of paint. You can see the offending peg I mentioned in the last post circled in red.





    Barring unforseen problems, we're probably 80% done with the machine.

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  3. #82
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    I milled the 3rd vee way to add some clearance. I was on the fence about it, but decided to go for it. I had to grind a custom endmill due to the 100 degree Vee way, but it worked ok. Good enough for clearance at any rate. I just used my bench grinder, no fancy cutter grinders here. I have about 15 thou all the way around now.







    I also got some of the new oiling system parts installed. The new metering valve and some broken lines replaced. The oil system on this machine should work as good as new when done. I've just got to test the apron pump tomorrow (it squirted a small amount of oil before so I think it's fine) and then install the apron. That should all be happening very soon.





    I have one question though: due to the wear, the front gibs are a mile away from touching. Does anyone even care about these? For them to do anything, I would have to boring with enough stickout to be past the edge of the saddle wings, and with enough force to actually try to lift the saddle. And it's got center and rear gibs. I can fix them, it just doesn't seem very worth the time.

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  5. #83
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    Man, I thought was done in the apron. Even had some oil in it to test the pump (works great). Well I wasn't. I was trying to figure out how the back wall got oil, so I watched George Huffman's video and found out there was a large oil pipe missing. So it all had to come back apart. I'm pretty fast at it now, but unfortunately there is a worn out tapered roller bearing that always falls apart when you screw with it.

    Our tiny workbench/welding table is a disaster.





    Another problem with the apron is that the clutch handles don't stay engaged. It seems like they relied on having a sharp corner that they cammed over, and then spring tension held them in place. With that sharp corner worn away, they just fall off. As much as I hate it, I think the correct solution is to braze that corner back on and file flat. I could probably run them upside down as a lazy man's solution. I'm not sure what to do.

    In the good new, all the carriage way wipers are installed. We had to make one new wiper housing. Cutting felts for this machine is extremely trivial, there is no excuse to let them get back and destroy the ways.







    Some days are two steps forward, four steps back.

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  7. #84
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    Well, well, well. What have we here? Lathe is starting to look more like a lathe again.





    The apron went on pretty easily. Dad and mom helped, and we placed it on a lab jack in the chip pan and used that for final positioning. Screwed it in, added the Dutch keys, hooked up the oil line and it was done!

    I shortened the carriage lock so it would work and added a temporary capscrew. Not sure what it had originally, looks like it came to us with a capscrew. I'll make a proper square soon probably.

    The oil system works good! I cannot express how nice it is to always have a thick coat of oil on the ways. It is over-oiling the flat way a bit, the vees seems just right. I probably should have left the metering felt in the holes alone, it was much denser than what I replaced it with. (I used F7 for the wipers BTW and F13 for the oil reservoirs BTW). I probably needed F3 in the holes to match what they had, but that would have been another $15. It doesn't really bother me though, NBD. It's hard to tell whether the cross-slide and apron are getting their oil yet, they are metered very low. Looks like everything is getting oiled though. No leaks, so I'm very happy with the oiling system.



    The carriage slides about as well as one can expect for having no flakings and not being very flat. I can't push it by hand, but it doesn't take much effort on the handwheel.

    Dad polished up the original nut for the handwheel, which happens to be brass. I think it looks fantastic. We never paint handwheel rims or spinners, just doesn't feel good in the hand.





    I couldn't find the bearing balls to put one in for the threading stop. It should work fine though. It will need a brass thumb screw someday as well.

    The clutches still don't hold. I think they'll need to be brazed. I'm just trying to decide whether to use silicon bronze which is impossible to machine or file, but is tough, or brass, which will be pretty soft. Probably brass.

    So the next order of operations:
    1. Mask and paint the saddle.
    2. Push it against the wall and level it.
    3. Machine one gib screw (lost it. Identical to a Bport screw except it's coarse thread)
    4. Install the cross-slide and compound which are painted and ready to go.

    After that, it's simply a matter of going through the entire QCGB and then finish up the small issues that remain and put it to use. We're close!

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  9. #85
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    Yesterday was productive.

    We got the first coat of paint on the saddle.



    I built a gibscrew to replace the one we lost. Almost built two, since it's not much more work when you're already setup. Well it turns out I need two, as the cross-slide has one front and rear. I have no idea how we lost both, pretty pathetic though. I'm sure they'll turn up when we finish. Whatever. I can't use spare Bridgeport screws as they are coarse thread instead of fine thread. Otherwise the dimensions are identical.



    We started into the apron, but it's not coming apart without a fight. We've already got one stuck taper pin that will probably have to be drilled. The next problem was a gear that was extremely stuck. We double and triple checked the manual to make sure we weren't doing it wrong, but it was just stuck. Huge thanks to b2major9th for uploading a scan of his manual years back. The very large images of of the detailed section drawings that are absolute lifesavers when trying to diagnose how something like this comes apart when it's totally covered in grease and grime and you can't necessarily see what's holding it together.



    We tried a slide hammer and that wasn't touching it, so I made yet another tool to get it out. I screwed a stud into the end of the shaft and slid the puller pipe over it and put a nut on it. We had it up to probably 100+ foot-lbs and it wasn't budging so I got out the torch and heated it and it budged but not much. We ended up letting it cool and then hitting the nut with a wimpy 1/2" battery impact and that yanked it right off. I'm sure I didn't do the gear any favors. It was hot enough to blue it, so I'm sure it lost a little temper. Not my proudest moment, but idk what else you can do in situations like this. Gotta get the job done.





    The gear fit is probably a press fit with two keys and a dutch key. I have no clue how we'll get it back on. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

    The dissembled and first-washed parts thus far:



    The tumbler lever that is all wallowed out does have bushings in it. I thought that it was just cast iron, but it was just filthy. I'm not sure that I can just press them out and replace though. It looks like the bronze goes right up to the edges, and it may even be mechanically attached via soldering or something. It's probably best just to bore it in place. I'm a bit afraid of it, as being off in alignment any means the gear mesh will be wrong. It looks like it's only wallowed heavily on the one side so hopefully I can get indicated without too much issue.


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    The next part to come out to strip it was the leadscrew driver, and it has 3 components, an exterior sleeve, attached to a shaft, running through an interior sleeve. There was no where good to hit on the inside, just the dog engagement showing. I was thinking about making yet another tool, when I had the idea of using a 3 jaw chuck clamped on and beating on the chuck with a soft faced hammer. That worked great and didn't damage anything.



    Then the cluster came out easily enough.



    Then there was just two shafts left. On the leadscrew reverse shaft (hidden) there were a couple of really tough taper pins. I remembered seeing or having tried an air hammer in the past and that working well. Brap! Taper pins out.



    Stripped! After two more pressure wash and purple power cycles for a total of 5 or so, the case is pretty clean. It will still get one final wash in the parts washer to clean up and remove the flash rust from the precision bores. That's as much process as we've made on the GB for now. We're waiting on some bearings.

    With the paint dry on the saddle I turned my attention to the cross slide. The cross-slide was complete, just needed a few finishing touches.

    First, a 5 thou shim for the gib to get a little more travel.



    Then it could be installed with the two new gib screws.





    I was having some binding at the near end, and discovered that due to wear the saddle had been effectively shifted to the left and bunch and the lead screw wasn't allowing for that. So I oversized the holes and added washers. It's still not tight. At all. I can't add any more shim if I want full travel. Is what it is.

    Since I was finished behind it we shoved it up against the wall. Not a good place for machines I know, but we don't have any other options. I can still get to stuff behind it, I just have to work ontop of the machine.



    Next up is to get the leveling feet in and level it. I'm hoping to have it completed in the next two weeks so stay tuned!

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  12. #87
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    Lotta work you're putting in. I love my Sidney, so I'd have to say it'll be worth it.
    Not digging the color, though. Almost all of my manual machines are war time era, and I'm partial to the "war paint".
    Now get back to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    Lotta work you're putting in. I love my Sidney, so I'd have to say it'll be worth it.
    Not digging the color, though. Almost all of my manual machines are war time era, and I'm partial to the "war paint".
    Now get back to work.
    It looked better in my head... But we had to find something both dad and I would agree on, and this is what we ended up with. It's not changing now. Check back in 40 years.

    Damn, a man can't even get the weekend off? Haha.

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    Bitch, you started a thread on a fairly rare machine tool. So no. No weekends off.

    NO SOUP FOR YOU

    (I wish I had the herringbone) Lucky fucker

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    Bitch, you started a thread on a fairly rare machine tool. So no. No weekends off.

    NO SOUP FOR YOU

    (I wish I had the herringbone) Lucky fucker
    Oh you demand updates? Come back one year! Next!

    I wish I had a lathe that hadn't had 5lbs of cast iron worn away. I'd gladly trade for a tight one. If you haven't read the earlier parts of the thread look back to see how worn it is.

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    It's been a while. Truth of the matter is I got a little busy and I fell behind on the updates. However, the lathe is now back together, running, operating. Still needs a few small things but it's 99.9% done. I'll try in the next week or two to get caught back up to current.

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  19. #92
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    Awesome pic heavy thread.

    On post #83, you replaced wipers. Just curious which grade felt you used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Awesome pic heavy thread.

    On post #83, you replaced wipers. Just curious which grade felt you used.
    F7 for the wipers, mostly due to price. I don't think it's a bad choice, but you could also go a bit stiffer. F5 might be a bit better, but it's considerably more. F3 might be great as well. But certainly no softer than F7. Also, keep in mind I've barely used this so I can't comment on longevity. But a sheet of felt will last a lifetime even if you replace them twice a year and it takes only minutes. If the previous owners would have done that this machine wouldn't be nearly as destroyed.

    I got F11 IIRC for the oil reservoirs, and if I did it again, I'd just use the firm stuff. I ended up using some of it anyway for the reservoirs as I felt the F11 would drain too fast. F3 felt cord for where it was supposed to be stuffed in the holes. It tore kind of easily, so tougher stuff would be preferred.

    I've still got plenty if you need some. Send me a PM. 3/16" thickness on the F7 and 1/4" F11. Cord is almost gone, you'll have to get your own there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClappedOutBport View Post

    I've still got plenty if you need some. Send me a PM. 3/16" thickness on the F7 and 1/4" F11. Cord is almost gone, you'll have to get your own there.
    I do appreciate the offer, but I was asking because I just recently purchased some, and had been researching it recently. So I was curious.

    It seems like I have two size thicknesses for wipers, 3/16 and 1/4". So I picked those up in 12" x 12" sheets, Plus I was guessing on felt thickness for some oil pumps at 1/8". I choose F1's for wipers, and F5 for the oil pump filters. I have not cut or installed yet, so we'll see how it goes, and how well it works.

    You mentioned price, not sure how much, or where you got it, but I bought off Grainger and the 1/4" was the highest price at about $15. The other 2 fell around $11-$13. I was comparing to Mcmaster Carr, and Grainger was a little cheaper. The 1/4":
    GRAINGER APPROVED Felt Sheet, F1, 1'/'4 In Thick, 12 x 12 In - 2DAH9'|'2DAH9 - Grainger

    The only real tricks in shopping was I was getting dyslexic reading 1/2's 12's, lol. So I had to watch. The other was it seemed like they had the same product listed twice, but at different prices. Really going over the description chart, one has plain back, the other and more expensive was adhesive back. No need for adhesive.

    Desktop web link on their selection:
    Felt Sheets and Strips - Felt - Grainger Industrial Supply

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I do appreciate the offer, but I was asking because I just recently purchased some, and had been researching it recently. So I was curious.

    It seems like I have two size thicknesses for wipers, 3/16 and 1/4". So I picked those up in 12" x 12" sheets, Plus I was guessing on felt thickness for some oil pumps at 1/8". I choose F1's for wipers, and F5 for the oil pump filters. I have not cut or installed yet, so we'll see how it goes, and how well it works.

    You mentioned price, not sure how much, or where you got it, but I bought off Grainger and the 1/4" was the highest price at about $15. The other 2 fell around $11-$13. I was comparing to Mcmaster Carr, and Grainger was a little cheaper. The 1/4":
    GRAINGER APPROVED Felt Sheet, F1, 1'/'4 In Thick, 12 x 12 In - 2DAH9'|'2DAH9 - Grainger

    The only real tricks in shopping was I was getting dyslexic reading 1/2's 12's, lol. So I had to watch. The other was it seemed like they had the same product listed twice, but at different prices. Really going over the description chart, one has plain back, the other and more expensive was adhesive back. No need for adhesive.

    Desktop web link on their selection:
    Felt Sheets and Strips - Felt - Grainger Industrial Supply
    I think you made a good choice. I'm trying out polyurethane rubber for another lathe I need to make wipers for. If the Sidney's ways weren't scored up junk I think that would be the better solution, but I guess I'll find out.

    Man, looks like I could have got the better felt from grainger for not much more. I should have shopped around. I got it from mcmaster, and they're like $30 for that piece.

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    The thing with that, could easily be a mistake is, again, the backing. The title of listing does not say. There is a check box to left of desktop view for adhesive or plain, but I didn't notice it at first. I had to go down the specs chart till I saw it.

    Again the plain backing listing at $15:
    GRAINGER APPROVED Felt Sheet, F1, 1'/'4 In Thick, 12 x 12 In - 2DAH9'|'2DAH9 - Grainger

    Then the adhesive backing for $19:
    GRAINGER APPROVED Felt Sheet, F1, 1'/'4 In Thick, 12 x 12 In - 2FGW7'|'2FGW7 - Grainger

    At first, I couldn't for the life of me figure why one was more, was it better quality ? I think I would have been upset if I bought the adhesive back and not realized till I was ready to cut it.

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    So the lathe needed leveling, and as I'd said in a previous post, I made homemade leveling feet.

    I had no way of getting them in, as I needed to raise the lathe another two inches, and my Johnson bar wasn't cutting it anymore. (Maybe if I weighed another 100 lbs it would have )

    But I had a plan. I removed the outer two cement blocks, put in a 2x4, then jacked it 1/4 turn at a time up enough to get the inner feet in. I was safe about it and cribbed as often as practical. Then by de-adjusting the leveling feet on the outside, I could put the blocks back in. The tailstock end was light enough to lift with the Johnson bar.







    Man, I didn't make those a mm too long! I guess the floor has a bit of slope here.

    I'm sure you all are thinking that it's too tall, but keep in mind that I'm 7" taller than the average American, so a 6 or 7" rise isn't unreasonable.

    I wasn't able to get it full twist-free. It has apparently taken a set from sitting unlevel so long. The front tailstock feet have almost no weight on them and it still needs to go down. I think it will settle with time. It's probably about time to check it again now, it's been 5-6 weeks.


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    Well I was about getting ready to machine the bore on the bronze tumbler (bottom of post #85), but it's swing radius is 7". The Lagun will swing that, but not with a chuck jaw hanging on the outside. So, it was either pull the chuck, pull the gap, reinstall the chuck, machine, pull the chuck, reinstall the gap, or just do it in the Sidney and I can take it as slowly as I like. So I needed to get this thing operational.

    I needed to make the CXA toolpost for the Lagun usable and preferably at the same height as the Lagun so I don't have to reset toolholder height. Ideally it would have a CA, but we don't have one right now.

    I started with the T-nut, which which went well except for one goof. I didn't tighten the collet enough and was being greedy with a .730" deep cut taking the sides down in one pass and my endmill slipped deeper. I'm not pleased about it, but I don't want to remake it so I'll probably just fill it with JB weld and remachine.



    Then I made a stud. Nothing special, 3/4"-10 on the one end and M18x1.5 on the other. Single pointed. Went well. Clearly I'm much better with a lathe than a mill. I power tapped the block 3/4"-10 on the Royersford.





    Now I just need a riser. I calculated the difference in center height between the two machines and looked for some suitable material. Didn't have any, but I we did have some old weight plates kicking around. I decided to trepan one out of the center. So I spent some time and ground up a face-grooving tool and tried that.



    It could have been a bit thinner, but it worked superb. Took almost all the rigidity the Lagun had to offer. I fed at 0.0045" per rev at 60 RPM.



    There's the ring sitting inside it's captor.



    Mounted up and ready to go!



    Center height came out perfect (at least up near the headstock) so tools are automatically on height for both lathes. I love that.

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    So, back on the gearbox and the tumbler. God what a nightmare that turned out to be. This will be part one I guess.

    I needed to bore it to be able to bush it. There isn't a flat surface on it. It's all cast except for a bandsaw cut. Where the gear goes is machined, but I couldn't think of a good was to fixture it off that in the mill. So I decided to try it on a lathe.

    To indicate it in, I put the shaft in and noticed that almost all the wear was to one side. Hot dog in a hallway on the one, but nearly unworn on the other. So I hammered in wooden wedges on the worn side.



    This ended up working poorly. I don't know why. Maybe I assumed the wear was in the wrong area, but the final hole needed to be closer to the other gear. Considering it was wedged in that direction, I don't know what happened. You all will see what I mean shortly.

    Indicating it into the 4 jaw was the hardest thing I've ever done. If one jaw was opened even 5 thou too much, not only did it slip and lose position, but the whole thing fell out. I tried for 30 minutes, then removed the gears to get it deeper, then spent another 30 minutes getting it dialed in. I had the shaft within a 1-2 thou and the end was only whipping by about 4 thou, so assuming my wedge method was valid (which apparently it wasn't), it was very well lined up. I was deathly afraid of it jumping out and getting smashed between the ways, so I zip tied it for assurance.



    First I faced off the outside



    Boring it was pretty disappointing using the lathe for the first time. The worn out cross slide would hop and bop due to the interrupted cut, and I didn't get consistent results until the bore was round. I started hand feeding with the compound, but due to the slop in it, switched to the carriage. Took a while with light passes. I did end up getting it to within 1 thou of my target dimension, and with 2 tenths taper between the two bores. So that's not too bad.

    I wasn't totally happy though. Due to the cross slide, when I exited a bore it relaxed and the back side of the boring bar cut a chamfer. (look towards the back of the bore and you can see the finish change. Surface finish was decent, but could be better.



    I have since worked out some work-around for the slopping cross slide which make boring go smoothly.

    To improve it, I decided to use one of dad's adjustable reamers. To do so, I first had to adjust the tailstock. I'll cover that soon.

    I haven't used adjustable reamers much, so I had it set about 15 thou strong and took off another 20 from the bore. That's fine, plenty of material.

    The reamer left an absolutely gorgeous finish and with maybe 1 tenth of taper. Nice!




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    For the bushings, a user on another forum gave me some Ampco 18. Thanks much to him, that stuff is expensive!





    My finished product looked great. There is a learning curve to Ampco, but it turns very nicely once you know a bit about it.

    I got them pressed in, and... suck.



    They look good but the mesh of the gears was awful. As said in the previous post, I have wedged the shaft to be as tight as possible towards the other gear, yet after making the bushings, it needed to go closer. Like 70 thou closer. I don't know if it was bad from the factory (I don't think so, the quality has been perfect everywhere on this machine), or I screwed up in my machining, or in my setup. Likely the last.





    Anyway. I wasn't happy. Bad contact, and the contact with the other gear and the cluster was poor too. I wasn't going to live with it.

    So, new strategy. Bore an offset bushing on the Bridgeport.



    I did the math on the gears and figured out the theoretical center to center distance. Then indicating the 3" gear's bore I moved and indicated the new bore and measured the difference with the DRO. I got 3.070, instead of the 3" it should be.

    Next I made multiples practice sets of aluminum offset bushings to proof the method. I also adjusted the offsets slightly each time to dial in both fits to be perfect.

    End result: perfection



    It's a little thin on one side. Could wear through and spin in the bore. Since I actually know how to use an oil can and Ampco is tough stuff, I'm not too worried. The bore finished at 1.2505, and the shaft was 1.2495, although it was worn about 4 thou in most tumbler positions.

    So there's about 40 hours of work in two posts. Whew!

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