American Pacemaker 16x30 - First lathe
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  1. #1
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    Default American Pacemaker 16x30 - First lathe

    Long time mostly-lurker here, on the VFD forum. I've owned a bridgeport for a few years as my first mill, but have never been able to find the right lathe, and as a result mostly worked on the side on the lathe at work, a 14x48 Clausing-Colchester. A nice lathe, all things considered, but was a hassle to make a part, then bring it home and check fits, then tune it up at work the next day. Makes projects slow.

    So i knew i wanted a lathe for home use, just wanted to hold out for the right one. I wanted to be able to make automotive or tractor flywheels as a largest swing. I've looked at a few large no-names, a Hendey, Monarch, and a few others in the early American lathe era. Nothing was "right". I knew i wanted something fairly rigid, nothing in the South Bend class. I also didn't have mega bucks to spend on it, since i'm not primarily earning a living with it at this point anyway, so i knew it would need some refurb. I'm not scared of large projects.

    This little unit turned up on local for sale ads, about 100 miles away. I went and looked at it and the guy wanted to move it pretty bad. He's cleaning out a warehouse and it has to be gone within 2 weeks. I checked the headstock, it shifts gears nicely, and you can tell it's smooth. All the controls work, and it includes the taper attachment, 3 and 4 jaw chuck and it's mostly all intact.

    The downside however, was it had sat outside for a couple of years. There's rust on the ways, but a copper brillo pad took that off without a lot of scrubbing near the headstock. Cleaned off the serial and it's a war baby! 1943.
    There is some damage to the right chip pan, and the center chip pan is missing. Based on the fact the engage rod is bent upwards, i'd guess some idiot tried to lift it under the center chip pan. I'll be locating or fabbing one up instead.
    The apron does not move, but the controls are free, i can feel the free play in all the controls. I think the apron is "glued by rust" to the ways. What i'm hoping anyway. The tail stock is also frozen. I'm hoping careful soaking and cleaning will unfreeze everything.

    I could tell he wanted to move it out. I told him it was about 5500 lbs, and at 80 a ton, he could get ~300ish in scrap value. He said he had an offer of 400 already, i offered 450 and he took it.

    So i own an American Tool Works Pacemaker 16x30 war baby for $450.

    I'm so excited to finally get one of the best of the American lathes as my first lathe i can barely stand it! No offense to any other brands. I looked at a Monarch 10EE as well, but the DC drive is a little scary.

    Next weekend is pickup day, i borrowed an equipment trailer from a buddy and will drive down and get it. The guy has lined up a large forklift and i will buy a couple of lift straps for the lift.

    I'm stoked!

    Pics for your perusal.

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  3. #2
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    Good stuff. Cast iron ways so the rust shoves off nicely with a semi dull way scraper or even a razor blade

    Lots of related pubs at Greg Menke's pouncetronics web page - see there Bulletin 16 and 20

    http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/index.html

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    You'll be in for a ton of work, but it will probably clean up fine if you put the work in.

    I'd rather get gross and greasy than rusty, but it's yours now.

    I cleaned up a smaller lathe that was in about the same shape and you could not tell it had ever been a rusted solid mess when I was done.

    Just plan on pulling the entire carraige, apron and tailstock apart. Headstock and feedworks is probably fine.

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    Don't crank that carriage AT ALL! Until you scrape the ways. If it was me, I'd begin by taking it (the carriage) off. No sense getting shit under the carriage. Before you scrape the rust, spray it with Starrett M1, Kroil or something. The dust will be subdued a bunch.

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  7. #5
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    This isn't easy but is most satisfying. This machine sat out for years, but the cast iron did not seem to lose any of its beauty

    Illustrates the semi dull way scraper approach to shoving off the rust
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_1317.jpg  

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    Yeah, i am not cranking the apron at all until it's cleaned up.

    Anybody got any thoughts on the trailer? I borrowed one from a buddy, i noticed tonight it's all angle iron, with a double rail on top. I'm a little worried it's light. I may add some structure before i pickup. I think i have enough 2" square tube around to do the job. Or maybe i'll grab some channel. Trying to pickup this weekend. Found a rigger on the pickup for $100.

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    Johnoder,

    I've done this sort of recovery in the past with a cast iron top on a table saw. It was nasty rusted and i used oil and a razor blade at about 90 degrees to just scrape the rust off. That what you're thinking? I probably won't remove much material that way. How does one unstick a tailstock? Soak it in solvent or something? I can't even budge the tailstock leadscrew.

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    negatory on those cast ways, American Pacemakers have tool steel ways!( outer ones anyway, not inner) I own two looking for at least a third. I use the 16x54 every day. both had rust when I acquired one of them, time, scotchbrite, steel wool, scrapers, rust converters and lots of elbow grease later I am running a business with them!I also used a lot of pb blaster, seems to work well and easier to acquire than Kroil. I get compliments on them from nearly every customer too! by the way...anybody got a 40"+ swing pacemaker they want to sell? over 16' between centers would be nice. if you can't find a copy of the manual PM me, I'll see if I can copy mine.

  12. #9
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    Machine was built PRIOR to the separate hardened outer vee ways - see his last photo in post #1 and notice that front way has no joint like your hard ways machines have

    Quote Originally Posted by hvnlymachining View Post
    negatory on those cast ways, American Pacemakers have tool steel ways!( outer ones anyway, not inner) I own two looking for at least a third. I use the 16x54 every day. both had rust when I acquired one of them, time, scotchbrite, steel wool, scrapers, rust converters and lots of elbow grease later I am running a business with them!I also used a lot of pb blaster, seems to work well and easier to acquire than Kroil. I get compliments on them from nearly every customer too! by the way...anybody got a 40"+ swing pacemaker they want to sell? over 16' between centers would be nice. if you can't find a copy of the manual PM me, I'll see if I can copy mine.

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    Correct. Cast iron ways.
    Thought I might post the other photos I have of it. Comments welcome. I know I'm in for a long road.

    The half nut lever is missing I noticed. I will make one.

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

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    How does one unstick a tailstock? Soak it in solvent or something? I can't even budge the tailstock leadscrew.
    Lots of time, patience and "penetrating" type oil/solvent - with an equal portion of bumping on things to see if any more movement than last week.

    Helped by purposeful set ups so its a no brainer for the liquid to go where it ought to

    Great line drawing page 40 of Bulletin 20 - which I mentioned above in Post #2 - shows the rear bell unscrews if you acquire or otherwise make your self the right pin type hook spanner

    Spindle draw back nut... you will need Walter A to make you one of his fabulous hook spanners for that L1 spindle nut

    FS: "L" Series Spanners

    ph

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    Ah yes, i see it now. Looks like unscrewing that end bell takes the bearing with it. Opens the whole thing up.

    My seller is now telling me that the only thing we have on site for loading is a boom truck. I'm fairly certain we want a load spreader on it for the straps. Anybody know the ideal hole placement for the spreader? I'd probably use an ibeam i have sitting at home for the spreader, if i know the hole spacing ahead of time, i could fab it before i leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post

    Spindle draw back nut... you will need Walter A to make you one of his fabulous hook spanners for that L1 spindle nut

    FS: "L" Series Spanners

    ph
    Ah yes, i will be sure to contact him. I will need one.

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    on the tail stock, there is some nuts under it and you can take those off and the bottom plate and lift the tail stock strait up.

    as far as the carriage goes, there are some bolts on the underside of the back side on a plate that keep everything tight to the ways, you can pull those bolts to help loosen things up. you can also pull the feed/speed rods that run through the apron and remove the apron off the front and pull the carriage straight up.

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    Yes, i'll definitely remove the tailstock to work on it. The apron and carriage look fiendish to remove. I want to, but i need to study the workings for a bit.

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    Nothing wrong with a boom truck. You can correctly place 4X4 timbers to prevent unwanted damage to lead screw and feed rods. Here's my 10,000 lb. Monarch going for a fly. Boom truck operator was/is a pro, and I use him for this stuff frequently.

    monarch-lift-1.jpg

    monarch-lift-2.jpg

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    Here’s how I used to move my ATW 16”x30” around. It’s the safest and easiest way to move it. Be careful moving it any other way. The head stock is heavy and bed isn’t long enough to offset the weight difference.

    Andy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 49176fc2-5952-4af6-a99a-98fe0d20743f.jpg   a1b7d5db-fc20-4625-af93-372c90b78291.jpg  

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    I'm aware the 16x30 is a tough move with the short bed. My round straps just came in. Rated 16,000 as basket. My plan was strap as close to the headstock as possible over the ways and through the bed, that's the main lift point. Then one as far as possible to the tailstock end but still captured. Then a bar through the spindle, and a light strap to apply some force as needed to help level. But the two round straps would be the main lift points. I'm a little uncertain about the spindle strap, but short of adding weight to the tailstock end, i don't know what else to do. Should the main boom truck cable be the main lift point, and the secondary cable to the other end. I was thinking a load spreader might be needed though, since both cables come from the same point on the boom. I definitely DONT want the straps to get pulled to center. The apron is locked in place, but i don't want the forces to be yanking on the apron during the lift. I don't think i have any way to get the lathe off the ground first to get a strap under the headstock. I don't have a toejack yet.

  23. #19
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    You have the right idea to put a bar in the spindle hole on the back side to use as a balance adjusting point.
    A 5000 lb ratchet strap (2")or come a long would be my choice.
    It shouldnt take much load if you have a big strap under the ways as close to headstock as possible.

    Big strap to take most of load, small adjuster to get close to level

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Machine was built PRIOR to the separate hardened outer vee ways - see his last photo in post #1 and notice that front way has no joint like your hard ways machines have
    could be, I'll have to check into that more. I believe one of mine is also from ww2 I'll have to check the date, douglas aircraft tag is still on it too.


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