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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 86turbodsl View Post
    I'm aware the 16x30 is a tough move with the short bed. My round straps just came in. Rated 16,000 as basket. My plan was strap as close to the headstock as possible over the ways and through the bed, that's the main lift point. Then one as far as possible to the tailstock end but still captured. Then a bar through the spindle, and a light strap to apply some force as needed to help level. But the two round straps would be the main lift points. I'm a little uncertain about the spindle strap, but short of adding weight to the tailstock end, i don't know what else to do. Should the main boom truck cable be the main lift point, and the secondary cable to the other end. I was thinking a load spreader might be needed though, since both cables come from the same point on the boom. I definitely DONT want the straps to get pulled to center. The apron is locked in place, but i don't want the forces to be yanking on the apron during the lift. I don't think i have any way to get the lathe off the ground first to get a strap under the headstock. I don't have a toejack yet.
    Choker chain or strap aft to correct for imbalance, and a single hook is fine.

    Anchor everything. MOUSE EVERYTHING!

    Last thing you need is any sort of bump or bounce slacking any lifting or balancing line and turning it loose of its CHOSEN anchorage/attach point to make up its own mind where and how it is going to pick a random balance point of its own devising, change angle of attack, dip, dive and roll to explore the cruel world. Worse, just quit altogether, drop load, cause you to follow suit and ruin yer undershorts.

    Rushing is ruinous. Slower is saferous. Good preparation pays back in reduced blood, iron, or money wasted.

    You have to do this exactly ONCE (this year, anyway..). Make it right.

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    You lost me at choker chain and mousing. I'll start digging, but i don't know those terms. I'm an engineer, not a rigger/millwright.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 86turbodsl View Post
    You lost me at choker chain and mousing. I'll start digging, but i don't know those terms. I'm an engineer, not a rigger/millwright.
    A choker chain is a chain with a ring on the end. Put the loose chain grab through the ring, wrap the loop around machine and lift. The chain will then bind down and “choke” whatever you’re picking up. You can use your strap as a choker too.

    Mousing is going slow and looking everything over before making a move. I guess it could also mean, move fast when the boot (or lathe) comes down on top of it??

    Andy

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    Ok, i read somewhere else that the strap should be over top of the bed, and down around the sides, then up through the center. Is there a thread somewhere on proper way to sling a lathe? This will be my toughest lift yet. My bridgeport was easy compared to this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobby Shop View Post
    A choker chain is a chain with a ring on the end. Put the loose chain grab through the ring, wrap the loop around machine and lift. The chain will then bind down and “choke” whatever you’re picking up. You can use your strap as a choker too.

    Mousing is going slow and looking everything over before making a move. I guess it could also mean, move fast when the boot (or lathe) comes down on top of it??

    Andy
    One has "moused", for example, an open hook, when a relatively low-strength means (mouse power?) has been applied to prevent the chain, rope, or ring it is attached to from escaping should the tension come off - such as from a bounce or unexpected impact.

    "Back in the day" heavy fibre twine was laid in multiple wraps across the "mouth" of the hook. Take note that they are shaped so the back side of the lower prong and the shoulder above the opening are shaped to retain just such a wrap.

    Tedious business, but it has saved damaged lives and reduced damage to goods for a lot more than just a hundred years.

    MOST hooks, present-day, even on an El Cheapo Chinese Horror-Fright alleged engine hoist, has a spring-loaded sheet metal swing latch for the same purpose.

    MOST are also all-too-commonly bent damaged to uselessness, hence many have been removed out of annoyance or further intentionally bent off to one side.

    The goods may have grown shabby. The concept is as valuable as it ever was.

    Similar goal where a hook is attached to an edge or bar. Security may be enhanced by simply adding a bungee or cordage that carries NO load, but holds a light strain so the hook remains engaged even when the primary load-bearing strap, cable, or chain has been slacked.

    Nothing else to-hand? Duct tape the bugger so it doesn't disconnect if the load bounces or someone sets 'er down to reposition, possibly losing whatever was assisting with control of angle or balance-point. Even if that loss is detected, the load may NOW be in a situation that makes going in to re-attach dangerous.

    NO rigging training? Nobody is BORN with it, so...

    "Cheap reads" that go directly to the meat of it can be had, online or in hard-copy, US Government Printing Office.

    Check Corps of Engineers, US Navy, Merchant Marine, and USAF publications. When cargoes include everything from soda crackers to explosives, rocket fuels & oxidizers, bulldozers, tanks, railway locomotives and nuclear weapons?

    Expect seriously well-trained folks who learned to "give a damn" pay close attention, proceed with care, even if all-else was entirely new ground.

    We had no other viable option, any of us.

    Still don't. The f**ker-upper-fairies don't take vacations, they'll nail yer ass any time yah give 'em the chance!



    PS: You don't want lifting straps over the edges down and around the OUTSIDE of a lathe's bed casting at all .... SO LONG AS ..it is possible to keep them INSIDE the vees by going down and around the webs between the chip-exit chutes.

    That insures that even if the load shifts the leadscrew, surfacing driveshaft, control rods, handwheels, clutch handles, yadda, yadda,, are not put at risk of damage. Check for sharp edges, lower side of castings.

    Pad those edges. Also any corners. Recycled rubber doormats are handy, any "Dollar" type store. Cut 'em up or use whole.

    "Cardboard" off corrugated boxes? Not 100-percent useless. But close enough to justify something BETTER!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    PS: You don't want lifting straps over the edges down and around the OUTSIDE of a lathe's bed casting at all .... SO LONG AS ..it is possible to keep them INSIDE the vees by going down and around the webs between the chip-exit chutes.

    That insures that even if the load shifts the leadscrew, surfacing driveshaft, control rods, handwheels, clutch handles, yadda, yadda,, are not put at risk of damage. Check for sharp edges, lower side of castings.

    Pad those edges. Also any corners. Recycled rubber doormats are handy, any "Dollar" type store. Cut 'em up or use whole.

    "Cardboard" off corrugated boxes? Not 100-percent useless. But close enough to justify something BETTER!
    Good advice. I don't know of any way to strap to the bed other than over the outsides and up through the center of the bed. I don't think it's possible to strap only through the center. At some point you have to capture the outside. Maybe i'm not following you. I have a ton of carpet left over from the house carpet job. That seems to work pretty good on other moves i've made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 86turbodsl View Post
    Good advice. I don't know of any way to strap to the bed other than over the outsides and up through the center of the bed. I don't think it's possible to strap only through the center. At some point you have to capture the outside. Maybe i'm not following you. I have a ton of carpet left over from the house carpet job. That seems to work pretty good on other moves i've made.
    "Capture" the outside? Ancient hoor is going to dissolve if it rains? Or what?



    Down closest hole to HS, back up, next closest hole. Web in between is good Cast Iron, not balsa-wood.

    Done? Not quite.

    Check the surfaces, edges, the strap bend angles and spacing. De-rate your strap and or apply aids to avoid overstress.

    If you must run a timber under it as well? Provide that timber with some means of position retention so yah don't lose it if the lift is slacked.

    As already noted, a Pacemaker has one of the longest and heaviest of arses, ever seen outside of the UK, where a fondness for large hams doesn't stop with DS&G lathes. Just visit any pub! You WILL need spindle-bore bar and/or good anchorage, rear of the casting.

    Do NOT trust the carriage nor TS "locks" on any worn machine. Ratchet strap 'em in place if you do not outright remove the TS.

    Any machine-tool with cast covers should see them removed to travel along asided and protected. They tend to get cracked as often as lost.

    Sheet metal ones just dent, bend, or get their handles and hinges torn-up, so not as big a deal. Even so, most on a machine-tool are easy lift-off or easy-pull pinned. Maintenance thing.

    Carpet works well at protecting against sharps, but needs TAPED in place more aggressively than rubber mats, nor does it bend as well as the thin ones I grab at about $5 when flying in one-way for a drive-back go-fetch project. Carpet LOVES to slip if it is allowed to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 86turbodsl View Post
    Good advice. I don't know of any way to strap to the bed other than over the outsides and up through the center of the bed. I don't think it's possible to strap only through the center. At some point you have to capture the outside.
    No real need to come up the outside with the strap. Drop it down between the ways and put a large block of wood (4x6) under the ways for the strap to go around. This has no way of slipping off or even moving since the machine itself has captured the sling. What kinds of cross webs are cast into the ways will help you determine if wood should go across the ways at 90º or inside the ways the long way, pulling up on the webs.

    With your short lathe I dont think you will be able to do this, your strap will probably hve to go all the way around the headstock, like in the picture above.

    I slung my monarch 16x54 as described and the balance point was right under the chuck, this is with the pan having the other chucks at tailstock end, and carriage and tailstock moved all he way down there also. Your lathe is shorter so I would expect it to balance behind the chuck.

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    That's why I thought a bar in the spindle would probably help. It's not the lift point, but would keep it from tipping to the headstock end.

    I don't think there's any way to get a strap under the base before the lift starts. Not sure the round strap is right for that anyway. I do have a large flat strap but I don't remember capacity. Probably not more than 2 or 3000.

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

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    No need for even more straps, use what you have under the chuck and trough the ways, with the wood block to take most of the weight, 80%? The bar in the back of the spindle will take the rest of the weight, maybe 20%. Just use an adjustable way to pick it up and get to level. Come a long or ratchet strap.

    If you have a thin strap that could go through the spindle instead of a bar that could work also, it could go around a short bar across the chuck face. No chance of it slipping out.

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    If you strap or chain from under the head, put a 6x6 block on the cast in drip pan to block the chain out so it doesn’t point load and crack the pan. The picture I posted is blurry but the 6x6 is on the front, just under the QCGB. I wasn’t to worried about the rear block with the strap but I should’ve had one there too.

    If you’re going the route of a pipe through the spindle hole for balancing, make sure the closed side of the hook is facing the headstock. On a small hook, there’s a good chance the chains or straps will ride high.

    #1 rule...moving machinery when you’re unfamiliar is to take it slow and keep it low.
    Make sure you have an oh shit chain or two incase something goes wrong. If I’m not operating the crane or forklift, I prefer getting them in position, lift and back the trailer under it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 86turbodsl View Post
    That's why I thought a bar in the spindle would probably help. It's not the lift point, but would keep it from tipping to the headstock end.

    I don't think there's any way to get a strap under the base before the lift starts. Not sure the round strap is right for that anyway. I do have a large flat strap but I don't remember capacity. Probably not more than 2 or 3000.

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
    Trustworthy bar, not dodgy pipe, through the spindle is actually a sole means of lift SOME folks accept. Not my cuppa as a 100%-er but fine for balance trim.

    You don't really WANT to lift from clear down under the base with overhead gear.

    Side effect of the kinky ideas of rough sex Old Iron is prone to hide from public view until the worst of times. It wants to flip inverted, put its hairy base closer to the sky, just to run the rough shaft of "surprise! surprise" up YOUR arse, all dry and rusty!

    GOOD flat straps are not cheap, but can be used for "many, many" lifts.
    Which relatively few of us actually have to make, one or three machines and often years apart.

    The lifting goods Horror-Fright stock are best used de-rated - deeply - and for but the one or two critical lifts, but serve well-enough when "virgins" or nearly so.

    A bucket of new US-made chain in each of two sizes, 'nuther bucket of GI-surplus or other US-made hooks and shackles I have greater faith in.

    Padding exists, after all. Paint as well. Dropping is NOT an option.

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    86turbo, you mentioned concern about your trailer being on the light side and driving a hundred miles to pickup. Have you addressed or checked into this possible issue? Please expound, nothing worse than a mishap over the road. I would want at least an 8k rated trailer and appropriate tow vehicle. This is one area that can really turn into a nightmare.(don't ask me how I know this) if unsure consider hiring this haul to a competent skid truck driver. It will be cheaper in the long run. Hodge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hodge View Post
    86turbo, you mentioned concern about your trailer being on the light side and driving a hundred miles to pickup. Have you addressed or checked into this possible issue? Please expound, nothing worse than a mishap over the road. I would want at least an 8k rated trailer and appropriate tow vehicle. This is one area that can really turn into a nightmare.(don't ask me how I know this) if unsure consider hiring this haul to a competent skid truck driver. It will be cheaper in the long run. Hodge
    Great point! "Traffic exists, too".

    A mere hundred miles or even three hundred is a same-day out and back or a next-day return.

    Proper trailer or even a suitable TRUCK - no trailer needed - can be "cheap safety".

    Check your local rental agencies. THEIR stuff is usually new'ish and in decent order. Has to be or they can't get anything FOR it.

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    Trailer is borrowed, equipment trailer, two 3500lb axles, with brakes, 3" channel on frame up to axles. 15" tires that i am replacing for this trip. 2000+ lbs rated each. 2x10 planks for decking, tubular rail around entire trailer. It seems built similar to a kauffman 6000lb GVW trailer or maybe a little beefier. It's hauled tractors + implements prior, my buddy doesn't seem concerned. he's an engineer too. Haul vehicle is an F350 dually w/diesel. I'm not worried about the tow vehicle at all. He's suggested i add oak planking under lathe from side to side. I agree to spread load. My thought was to unbolt and transfer as much as possible to the truck to lighten load. I have an equipment trailer as well, 20K GVWR, but it needs a new deck and the wheels are off it. I have a deadline to get the lathe out of there, by the 24th. I don't really have a lot of options here.

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    The route to the location of the lathe is pretty flat, with very little traffic. I69 is basically about empty. I don't even have much traffic in town to the freeway. A slow ride will be little stress.

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    I've got that same lathe in a slightly longer version.(1946 model) Barring any major problems you will really enjoy using the pacemaker.

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    Can somebody with a pacemaker tell me how long the bar through the spindle needs to be? I'm planning on 1.5" bar, with a hole on one end and pinned through the chuck.

    I should also note that the trailer i'm using has a pipe top, not angle, so i think that adds some stiffness. I'm still thinking of biasing the lathe forward a bit to get more into the channel area. Adds tongue weight, but who cares. That dually won't even feel it.

    EDIT:
    2019 PJ Trailers Angle Pipetop Trailer (P6) Utility Trailer | ABQ Discount | Flatbed, Utility, and Dump Trailers in Albuquerque, NM
    This is about the closest i can get on design from what i've been able to see. Think the crossmembers are 3x3 angle though not 2x3 as on this design.

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    [QUOTE=86turbodsl;3428883]Can somebody with a pacemaker tell me how long the bar through the spindle needs to be?

    My 16 x 54 (1945) spindle measures 41.5" from the face of the L1 spindle. I don't think that your trailer is going to be very happy. I had mine hauled on a roll-back and thought that it was money well spent. Hope that your move goes well.

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    I'm sure the trailer is going to be pretty fully loaded. Unfortunately if i don't use it, i don't know what else i could use. 100 miles on anything else is going to be very expensive and then i can't let the lathe sit until i get a lift at my place arranged. The whole reason for borrowing the trailer was to take the pressure off 1 day coordinated moves on both ends.

    I did find this trailer locally:

    DUMP TRAILER 14 FOOT Rentals Jackson MI, Where to Rent DUMP TRAILER 14 FOOT in Jackson Michigan, Jonesville MI, Ann Arbor MI, Lansing, Battle Creek MI

    9000lb, and tilt back. $100/day.


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