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ATW Hole Wizard feed issues.

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Stainless
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Location
Michigan
Hi guy I'm having some issues with my ATW Hole Wizard
Quick history, I took the word of someone that said everything works like it should, it don't.

I finally got the elevation moving up/down, the spindle freed up and turning under power.

I read that there's an external adjustment for the power feed. Does anyone know how to make the adjustment? I also need some snake oil to put in the transmission. The speed selector is stuck and won't budge.

Andy
 

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FWIW. We were able to get 95% of the machine working right. Column up/down, power feed, feed stop dial, column limit switchs and oil pump are all working great. The gear box is loose & smooth in all gears now.

The only serious problem it has is, it jumps out of 3 gears...all over 1000rpm. If I hold the handle, the gears will stay in mesh but as soon as I let go, they kick out and grind. The gear box is about smoked. I spent an hr looking for an adjustment but I can't find one. The helical gears look brand new but almost all the spur gears are shot. The picture is the gear set that kicks out.

I'm making chips and running it like it is for now. I'll make it all right sometime in the far off future.
There's a jamb nut on the front for the machine for the feed clutch. Loosen the outer nut and thighten the inner nut to make the feed clutch adjustment. The adjustment tag was under 4 coats of paint.

Andy
 

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Not bad for a 70yr old machine. Cleaned everything up, hit the RD base and box bottom with a file. To my surprise, the column is only out .005" to the box in 24"s. Mounted an old shaper vise and she's good to go. I didn't see that the oil filter o-ring was blown when I put power to it so there's some oil on the back wall.

Andy
 

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Nice machine!
The spur gears doesn't look that bad in the pictures, but maybe they're worse in real life.
I imagine that there must be a spring that is missing or broken which should have held the gears in mesh. Maybe it is an easy fix if you just figure out what is wrong/missing ?
Thanks for posting the pictures.
 
The helical gears look brand new but almost all the spur gears are shot. The picture is the gear set that kicks out.
Are you talking about how the ends of the teeth are rounded over ? They put those into a Cross tooth rounder to do that - on purpose :D Look at the machining marks ... Except there is one tooth that looks kind of bashed but most likely that's the photo.

It's popping out for some other reason ...
 
Are you talking about how the ends of the teeth are rounded over ? They put those into a Cross tooth rounder to do that - on purpose :D Look at the machining marks ... Except there is one tooth that looks kind of bashed but most likely that's the photo.

It's popping out for some other reason ...

Thanks guys.
I'm talking about how the gears are worn to a point. The only gears that pop out are on this spline. I followed the linkage from the shifter handle to the splined shaft. I couldn't find a turn buckle, adjustment screw or any type of linkage adjustment. Here's some more pictures of the gears in question.
 

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What year? The year is with the serial number. I've got the slightly later 12 speed version. The teeth are worn, but I suspect there is a detent that isn't working properly that allows it to pop out of gear.

Do you have the wear indicator for the elevation screw? If you do, could you sketch the dimensions? Mine is missing.
 
Thanks guys.
I'm talking about how the gears are worn to a point. The only gears that pop out are on this spline. I followed the linkage from the shifter handle to the splined shaft. I couldn't find a turn buckle, adjustment screw or any type of linkage adjustment. Here's some more pictures of the gears in question.

Yeah well, 'worn' yes, but not as much as first appears, even so.

Thing is, when the diameter at the pitch-line drops, the "theorist" switches to a finer pitch.

A "pragmatist" sorts out the stresses and knows he can get away with using a longer/taller modified standard gear by tossing in a lot of extra clearance and they'll be cheaper and still live long enough whilst getting the job done they have to do.

Find yer jammed or busted detent, ELSE fab one, and you should be good to go without need of even tearing the gearbox down.

After all, C-B Super-Service or ATW Hole Wizard radials are crude, rude, socially unacceptable, politically unreliable, sexually indeterminate and.... b****y-damned powerful and EFFECTIVE makers of ignorant ROUND HOLES.

They do not pretend to be SIP Genevoise, Moore, or Devlieg jig-bore or jig-mills.

:D
 
Thanks guys.
I'm talking about how the gears are worn to a point.
Those teeth aren't worn. They were made that way.

It's a common trick when you need a certain ratio to put fewer teeth on a blank than it should have, then spread them out to reach the mating part. The tips get skinny when you do that. It's called 'long addendum' if you look in the books. The slang is 'drop-tooth' as in "This is a drop-tooth pinion." Cars do it a lot. There are several reasons for it but anyway ...

You can tell by looking at the roots and faces that those teeth aren't worn at all. At least from the photos, those are in great shape.

I never had a Hole Wizard but at least on the lathes, all the gears were excellent quality case-hardened, some were ground. 27-speed gearboxes with a shift lever like a Kenworth ... On the nc lathes they used Maag grinders. It was kind of crazy overkill. Nice nice stuff which we will never see again.

p.s.. "Rude and crude" ? As far as radial drills go, the Hole Wizard was the class act of the bunch :D They were worth a small fortune when there were lots of fab shops around. Guys that do lots of heavy structural stuff loved the things. What do they use now ? Some Korean crap ?
 
What year? The year is with the serial number. I've got the slightly later 12 speed version. The teeth are worn, but I suspect there is a detent that isn't working properly that allows it to pop out of gear.

Do you have the wear indicator for the elevation screw? If you do, could you sketch the dimensions? Mine is missing.

Sure can. Snap a few pictures of exactly what your missing and I'll look tomorrow evening.
 
You can tell by looking at the roots and faces that those teeth aren't worn at all. At least from the photos, those are in great shape.
Wot I said..
I never had a Hole Wizard but at least on the lathes, all the gears were excellent quality case-hardened, some were ground. 27-speed gearboxes with a shift lever like a Kenworth ... On the nc lathes they used Maag grinders. It was kind of crazy overkill. Nice nice stuff which we will never see again.

p.s.. "Rude and crude" ? As far as radial drills go, the Hole Wizard was the class act of the bunch :D They were worth a small fortune when there were lots of fab shops around. Guys that do lots of heavy structural stuff loved the things. What do they use now ? Some Korean crap ?

No idea what they use now.

I had a 3 foot C-B, probably 1920's or earlier, a five-foot American, and an eight-foot American - pre War Two build, pre "Hole Wizard" nomenclature..

Love them?

If it hadn't been a Union Shop, I might have been allowed to marry the eight footer for how sweetly she could drill and tap!

:D

No tapping head needed, just a good hand on the clutch - at 1 1/4", 2" - wotever a mining-machine part called for, and usually down in a deep feature between a bore and a sidewall.

"Rude, crude".. etc was for when I had a LOT of holes to knock into the heavy steel plate sidewalls of mining car parts, and didn't have to "baby" a damned thing.

Nice bit of kit those radials were.

Not a lot of space here now. Hope to be dragging a small Alzmetall home Saturday-Sunday.

Welll. IIRC, it as a larger spindle @ 5 MT than the eight-foot American @ 4 MT had. Much lighter, shorter, and takes waaay less floorspace though!
 
Yeah, I thought I'd translate it into English :D

But now that I read back what I said, maybe yours was better :(

Rumour has it the parallelism is driving a Danish nut case (the threaded one, not the breakfast one) even more bugf**k than his usual.

I'm good with that...

:D
 
Rumour has it the parallelism is driving a Danish nut case (the threaded one, not the breakfast one) even more bugf**k than his usual.
Who gets to be Eve Black, and who has to be Eve White ?

No, Jane ! no ! get that bitch out of here ! Aaaaaaaahhhhh ..... :cryin:
 
Who gets to be Eve Black, and who has to be Eve White ?

No, Jane ! no ! get that bitch out of here ! Aaaaaaaahhhhh ..... :cryin:

LOL!

Gordo 'minds me of the story of the insane asylum staff who had just taken in a new patient who was convinced he was Napoleon Bonaparte. Just for grins, they put him in the same padded room with ANOTHER nutter who thought HE was Bonaparte.

Next morning, they found the 'senior' Bonaparte grinning and strutting ... and the newbie in tears:

All these years, I thought I was Napoleon Bonaparte. How very wrong I have been!
Last night, I discovered that I am actually his beloved Josephine!
 
Those teeth aren't worn. They were made that way.

It's a common trick when you need a certain ratio to put fewer teeth on a blank than it should have, then spread them out to reach the mating part. The tips get skinny when you do that. It's called 'long addendum' if you look in the books. The slang is 'drop-tooth' as in "This is a drop-tooth pinion." Cars do it a lot. There are several reasons for it but anyway ...

You can tell by looking at the roots and faces that those teeth aren't worn at all. At least from the photos, those are in great shape.

Thanks. I'm learning something new about gears everyday but still have a long way to go. I'm behind on some projects so I'll have to use the RD the way it is for a bit before I tear into it again.

Andy
 
What year? The year is with the serial number. I've got the slightly later 12 speed version. The teeth are worn, but I suspect there is a detent that isn't working properly that allows it to pop out of gear.

Do you have the wear indicator for the elevation screw? If you do, could you sketch the dimensions? Mine is missing.

Here are some pictures of the elevation screw. Is the wear indicator the steel around the bronze elevation nut? I think my RD was made in 1950.
 

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Thanks. I'm learning something new about gears everyday but still have a long way to go. I'm behind on some projects so I'll have to use the RD the way it is for a bit before I tear into it again.

Andy

They have it in their nature to run about fifty years with near-zero upkeep, then run another fifty crippled and cranky, but still putting hole after hole where they need to be.

Don't over-think it.

Get 'er lubed-up, freed-up, adjusted, cleaned-up so you can SEE whatever is afoot, run it for a while, then make a plan.
 
They have it in their nature to run about fifty years with near-zero upkeep, then run another fifty crippled and cranky, but still putting hole after hole where they need to be.

Don't over-think it.

Get 'er lubed-up, freed-up, adjusted, cleaned-up so you can SEE whatever is afoot, run it for a while, then make a plan.

Copy that. That's the plan, use it and fix it as I go. Other than the problem with the 3 high speeds popping outta gear, everything else works great. Already put in a couple dozen holes and tapped a few.
 
Hobby Shop,
If it'll help, I've got the manual for my 1942 12 speed hole wizard. It is full of mechanical drawings. I'd be happy to run off a copy, and snail mail it to you (scanner isnt working with computer right now). Just email me with an address to send it to. mine is [email protected].
 








 
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