Axelson lathe clutch

donie · Jun 9, 2020

maybe another machine rescue, found a 20" Axelson with a bad clutch.
I was told by a machine dealer many years ago that "you better know what you are doing before you get into the headstock of an Axelson lathe".
I found a thread on another forum, a fellow starting, running into problems then the thread ends.
I have not seen the inside of an Axelson headstock, but one described it as so full of gears, one cant slip a pack of cigarettes' in there.
The clutch is deep in the headstock, how hard is it?

4GSR · Jun 9, 2020

Before you pull the cover on the headstock, remove the inspection cover on the back of the headstock. Behind this cover is access to the clutches, where you adjust ths slack out of them. Real simple to do, all you need is a small blade screwdriver to lift the ratchet mechanism, rotate slightly, usually about three to four notches to tighten them. Once done, turn on the lathe and see if the engagement helped any. If so, put the cover back on and move on.
If for some reason, the adjustment is bottomed out, which in this case, the clutch bands are probably completely worn out and probably gone. Then you are looking to pulling the clutch shaft and replacing the clutch packs. Not a easy job, an all day job if you have the stuff to do it with. Will require pulling the motor to access the shaft and the shaft has to come out from the motor side. Clutch parts are available from several sources that sell Twin Disk clutch parts. Ken

Edit: Pay attention to the bearings, some of them may be obsolete and cannot be replaced. Also, while the motor is off, replace the spider on the coupling and have new motor leads pulled on the motor. Ken

johnoder · Jun 9, 2020

Might be helpful

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2137/4431.pdf

good luck

donie said:
maybe another machine rescue, found a 20" Axelson with a bad clutch.
I was told by a machine dealer many years ago that "you better know what you are doing before you get into the headstock of an Axelson lathe".
I found a thread on another forum, a fellow starting, running into problems then the thread ends.
I have not seen the inside of an Axelson headstock, but one described it as so full of gears, one cant slip a pack of cigarettes' in there.
The clutch is deep in the headstock, how hard is it?

donie · Jun 9, 2020

4GSR said:
Before you pull the cover on the headstock, remove the inspection cover on the back of the headstock. Behind this cover is access to the clutches, where you adjust ths slack out of them. Real simple to do, all you need is a small blade screwdriver to lift the ratchet mechanism, rotate slightly, usually about three to four notches to tighten them. Once done, turn on the lathe and see if the engagement helped any. If so, put the cover back on and move on.
If for some reason, the adjustment is bottomed out, which in this case, the clutch bands are probably completely worn out and probably gone. Then you are looking to pulling the clutch shaft and replacing the clutch packs. Not a easy job, an all day job if you have the stuff to do it with. Will require pulling the motor to access the shaft and the shaft has to come out from the motor side. Clutch parts are available from several sources that sell Twin Disk clutch parts. Ken

Edit: Pay attention to the bearings, some of them may be obsolete and cannot be replaced. Also, while the motor is off, replace the spider on the coupling and have new motor leads pulled on the motor. Ken

Thank you! that is a really good start, the machine is buried in other junk, hopefully I can tunnel my way to the inspection cover.
The bearing problem was another warning I heard also.
This could be, "a project too far", the cost can add up fast, if obsolete bearings have to be damaged for disassembly.

4GSR · Jun 9, 2020

When i say obsolete bearings, the spindle bearings if bad can be had in a class 3 grade much cheaper than the 00 precision they originally came with. Unless your Axelson came off of a sunken destroyer as the one dad had, I would think you're okay on the spindle bearings. The bearings I mentioned are on the clutch shaft. There was a ball bearing dad couldn't get at the time and he just put it back together using the old bearings. Something about it wasn't available anymore. He has been known for altering things for a bearing close that would work, apparently didn't want to mess with it at the time.

The other thing to check out is the oil pump in the head stock and make sure it works. If not, plumb in a new oil pump.

Ken

donie · Jun 9, 2020

There is an old thread on that Nelson guy site "I don't want to link to it", and the guy that had Anchor machinery in Port Orford Ore, mentioned the possibility, of having to replace bearings, as multiple shafts have to be removed. If there are helical gears involved, spacing can be critical. The guy on the hobby forums last words included regret buying the machine.
The Axelson has two speed ranges vs. 3 in the Pacemaker, a photo of the Axelson headstock gears must be scarce. And I think clutch problems are not really common with the machines.
The hint that the machine I am looking at has a clutch problem is, felt marker on the head stock says "clutch out, move to storage".
The clutch lever on the headstock, feels loose, something could be broken in the linkage, and that may require removing the clutch.

4GSR · Jun 9, 2020

My dad back when he was doing machine repair for the company he worked for back in the 1970's had several of these lathes along with the hollow spindle one's too. Don't recall him saying anything about tearing up gears in the head stocks. Gear trains to the QCGB and apron, common repairs. Not saying it never happens, I'm sure it does. As for replacement gears, if you have the bad gear, there are gear shops out there that will make you a new gear In fact, in the Houston area, there is a place that used to sell replacement parts for Axelson lathes. Don't know if they still exists.

As for the clutch lever being loose, probably heavily worn from jerking it in gear all the time instead of easing it into gear. The bigger lathes, there is a linkage that can get sloppy over time, all can be fixed easily.

Like all old machinery, it's probably lived it's life and ready for recycling. Unless you want a project lathe. I don't need anymore project machines!!!!!

swatkins · Jun 9, 2020

4GSR said:
The other thing to check out is the oil pump in the head stock and make sure it works. If not, plumb in a new oil pump.

Ken

Also change the oil filter while you are in there... I found a replacment at an auto parts store..

Garwood · Jun 9, 2020

If you decide to pass on it please PM me with the info on the machine.

I have both a 14" Axelson and a 14" square head Pacemaker. I would much prefer a second Axelson.

I don't know what kind of answer you are expecting regarding working on the headstock. Most people that have intimate knowledge of these machines died 30 years ago. Like most old things you study it, use good mechanical practice and assembly is the reverse of disassembly. If a bearing isn't available off the shelf, well, the solution shouldn't be terribly difficult for a machinist.

Anything I have had to do on my Axelson has been pretty straightforward. They were designed to outlast your grandkids grandkids. If you screw it up, it's no fault of the machine or those that built it. I'll say that much.

Garwood · Jun 9, 2020

swatkins said:
Also change the oil filter while you are in there... I found a replacment at an auto parts store..

Filter is same as GM 235 six cylinder and Hyster Forklift with flathead continental 4 or 6.

donie · Jun 10, 2020

Good news on the oil filter, my wife's old Chev truck uses that filter.
It was more then 30yrs ago I was told the tale of woe, about replacing the clutch in an Axelson. Back in those times, the many mysterys of the electronics in the Monarch ee lathe was pretty much a guarded secrete with electricians at the Hanford site. But, now the information in the Monarch forum, allows most anyone to own one.
There was a larger pattern Axelson at the local CC.
I came across the lathe by accident, hearing that fellow had a 10" bench vise, he certainly does, wants more for the vise then the lathe.
And the Question of the day! Would anyhoo trade this vise, for an Axelson with a busted clutch?-

4GSR · Jun 10, 2020

Ohhh, guess that depends on how bad you want the lathe or better yet, how bad do you want to keep the vise?

I'd keep th vise and buy the lathe. The vise you have there is worth more than that Axelson ever will be worth!!! IMO....

donie · Jun 10, 2020

A vise collector does have the lathe!
I found the vise at the old Boeing surplus store in the early 1980s, $50, not super cheap back then. I didn't know it was collectable until a couple of years ago.
I would have never thought I could trade a bench vise for a serious machine like a 20" Axelson!

Garwood · Jun 10, 2020

I have owned a few Wilton bullet vises and always sold them. They're nice, but my big steel Simplex does the same job and isn't worth $800 so I can justify it just sitting on my bench.

What length is the bed? A 20x120 is a great size to have. A 20x60, not so much. If it has a long bed it is very useful machine. Short bed limits it's earning potential a lot.

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