Babbitt/ White metal Bearing temp.
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  1. #1
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    Default Babbitt/ White metal Bearing temp.

    At what temp should one get concerned about the temp of Babbitt shells on spindle.

    Was using 18” Lehmann for roughly 2 hrs continuously (4 five minute stops to change work pieces) turning down some extremely deeply hardened IH semi axles. When I went to shut it down I rested my hand on rear bearing in passing and it was borderline too hot to stay there. Got temp gun and front bearing was 97 and rear was 145ish. Ambient air temp was 92.

    Near noticed this before and the oilers were working. Should I be worried?

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    Real Tin Babbitt is poured in the 900 F range, but of course elcheap Lead "babbitt" is considerably less

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    I would expect the oil film to give up long before the babbitt was in danger of turning to mush. I would start to be concerned about the babbitt at 300 degF and really worry above 500 degF.

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    Thank y’all for the replies. Ok should be good then. Just was slightly alarming. Although she doesn’t get used that hard as today, anymore. Might pop the cover and check it out anyway.

    Speaking of opening it up. John we busted into the L&S about a month ago to address a ball bearing making a racket on the secondary back gear shaft. Look at that golden (bronze)
    93deecc9-94e7-4242-8b04-6afcd1872558.jpgbearing carrier. Bet it’s not factory!

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    63983113-1a0a-4e6a-b1f8-2875e8a2b552.jpg63983113-1a0a-4e6a-b1f8-2875e8a2b552.jpg7ed21a31-0de6-4420-a2df-e89a4102c8f9.jpg

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    63983113-1a0a-4e6a-b1f8-2875e8a2b552.jpg7ed21a31-0de6-4420-a2df-e89a4102c8f9.jpg

  9. #7
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    Sure not girlie gears in there

    Here is the innards of the "blue" one that went away long ago

    dcp_0988.jpgdcp_0989.jpgdcp_0990.jpg

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    Hm seems the “gold tooth” in thisun is aftermarket. It’s interesting appears hastily cast and has very large void (could drop a dime into it) at 3o clock from the bearing bore. Can see evidence of some snag grinding around stress risers but still put into service. Wonder why the heck they went with a bronze casting. Also of note on the bearing bridge closest to the chuck on the low range bull gear some one brazed 1-39 into the cast iron. Gold 1-39 on the seeming fine cast iron “bridge”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAggie View Post
    Hm seems the “gold tooth” in thisun is aftermarket. It’s interesting appears hastily cast and has very large void (could drop a dime into it) at 3o clock from the bearing bore. Can see evidence of some snag grinding around stress risers but still put into service. Wonder why the heck they went with a bronze casting. Also of note on the bearing bridge closest to the chuck on the low range bull gear some one brazed 1-39 into the cast iron. Gold 1-39 on the seeming fine cast iron “bridge”.
    Easier to cast bronze then steel I suppose.

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    Could be I suppose Homebrew. I know nothing of it. Now I’ve got some material to delve into! You’d think bronze would be pricier that old cast iron even “back in the day”

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAggie View Post
    Could be I suppose Homebrew. I know nothing of it. Now I’ve got some material to delve into! You’d think bronze would be pricier that old cast iron even “back in the day”
    Pricey vs iron yes but I’m sure back then they probably had scraps laying around, 1700° for bronze vs 2100° For iron. After all You said it has some good voids. Who knows ya know?

    Is the bronze covering the bearing in question? Seems like a fun adventure, those are some MIGHTY gears!

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    Those pieces seemed to be failure prone - the "blue" had a welded up one - fairly sure on this side next to the big back gear

    dcp_0991.jpg

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    9b52f48a-38b2-4315-aa6f-0e5a033eb7bc.jpgWelp check out the Lehmann bearing. Chicken shit looking Babbitt it towards the trust bearing (towards chuck) what to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAggie View Post
    9b52f48a-38b2-4315-aa6f-0e5a033eb7bc.jpgWelp check out the Lehmann bearing. Chicken shit looking Babbitt it towards the trust bearing (towards chuck) what to do
    Is any of it stuck on the shaft? You might just make sure it is smooth (no high spots) and leave it until you get a chance to re pour it.Extend that oil passage into the cottage cheese area so it gets plenty of lube.

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    Spindle looks pristine. I’d say that Babbitt has been screwed a while. Prob run low at some point long time ago and Babbitt smeared blocking the oil groove going forward. We use the hell out of this lathe but not as heavy as I was yesterday. I just scraped out the smearing. Babbit in particular very hard where smeared. Kind of popped out of groove in chunks. May try to eventually do a c932 swap as there’s no room for roller bearing upgrade.

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    So - is that a "shell" intended to be replaced or an actual pour job? If the latter, it would be unusual in a machine tool.

    Lodgie liked the shell idea shown below the Lehmann link. Maybe Ken (4GSR) recalls what his Lehmann had nearly fifty years ago

    Here is 1913 saying Bronze boxes

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/5030/17283.pdf

    ls-plain-bearing.jpg

    If a shell, I'd be making a new one from C932 Bronze

    Like so - except this is not a spindle bearing

    dcp_1239.jpg

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    Yes it’s just like the L&S ones. Four set screws through the shell oddly the front spindle bearing is a split shell bronze one. Just saw that after checking front caps. I suspect the original bronze rear got toasted and pops made a babbit shell to save on costs / had some on hand. Not sure but front bronze looks pristine. One of the many interest mods I’ve stumbled across on this Lehmann

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    I also agree with making a c932 bearing. If shaft and bore are fine, could be relatively easy fix all things considered.

    Lately I've used "bravo bronze" for online orders. Pretty good selection of hollow round. I can link it this evening if you don't find it on google.

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    Damn thanks for the link that’s a good site and has excellent pricing.

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