Best Way to Clean UP Tailstock Taper
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    Default Best Way to Clean UP Tailstock Taper

    Tailstock taper is looking a little rough. Just wonder what is the best way to deal with this? I assume they make a reamer for that, but don't want to go that route if ai don't have to.pxl_20201125_180106286.jpgpxl_20201125_180052443.jpg

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    You could use a wire wheel on a dremel to get the surface clean, also wd-40 and some emery cloth.

    Ultimately, you you really want to run a finish reamer in it, especially not knowing all the history, of what may have spun in there or what. What size is the taper ?

    I just cleaned a taper in a TS myself. When starting with a finish reamer I was initially only contacting about 1/16" around the hole. Something spun in it, and had a raised area. After getting the raised area down, I was contacting about 25%, gradually working up to close to full contact. Just working the reamer by hand with a wrench.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    You could use a wire wheel on a dremel to get the surface clean, also wd-40 and some emery cloth.

    Ultimately, you you really want to run a finish reamer in it, especially not knowing all the history, of what may have spun in there or what. What size is the taper ?

    I just cleaned a taper in a TS myself. When starting with a finish reamer I was initially only contacting about 1/16" around the hole. Something spun in it, and had a raised area. After getting the raised area down, I was contacting about 25%, gradually working up to close to full contact. Just working the reamer by hand with a wrench.
    I'll have to look on Mcmaster and see if they have any tapered brass brushes. I assume pure brass (not coated steel) is the way to go? Thanks for the suggestion. I can't remember off hand what my lathes taper is, but I found a Russian finish reamer that looked resonable in price. Not sure how these compare to the higher prices options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ja_cain View Post
    I'll have to look on Mcmaster and see if they have any tapered brass brushes. I assume pure brass (not coated steel) is the way to go? Thanks for the suggestion. I can't remember off hand what my lathes taper is, but I found a Russian finish reamer that looked resonable in price. Not sure how these compare to the higher prices options.

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    Based on pics, the TS taper looks really rough with surface corrosion. At this point you are not going to hurt it with a small steel brush. Typically I never use power tools on machine surfaces for cleaning, but you need that corrosion out, being gentle won't help it. But a dremel is low power and the little wire brushes can be had at Home Depot, etc.

    Reamers can be found on ebay once you know the taper size. But I wouldn't want to damage reamer cutting edges till that surface rust is out.

    As a new machine to you, as part of setting up, you don't truly know accuracy and performance yet. Besides getting level, you want to 'get everything pointed at center'. That's headstock, ways, and tail stock all parallel and pointed at each other at as close to zero as you can.

    As part of that, having a nice, clean taper in TS will help your readings or tests. Whether you are using a test bar, or a dead center in tail stock for you're initial setting up and adjusting. . . well the cleaner you get that TS taper, the more accurate you're reading as you make adjustment in preparation to get machine operational.

    There's many ways of doing things to get everything at center. Usually bed level first with a .0005" per foot level. Then checking of headstock spindle to ways, by test bar or other means, on two axis, so its parallel to ways both up and down, and right and left.

    Once headstock is finished, then we adjust tail stock to the center of headstock, besides getting pointed at center, you would check if the tail stock is slightly pointed down on that quill side, which happens with a little wear.

    Anyway, the point being the cleaner and more true you get that taper now, the more accurate your initial set up. Which translates to more accurate work as you start using the machine. Another FYI, you can get test bars for that taper as well off ebay, coming from India. Cost maybe $30-$70 depending on what taper. You might want one.

    Im' not familiar with Powerturns, not sure what taper may be in head stock side, but I might consider cleaning that taper, and a test bar there too. Or using a test bar in collets etc.

    Edit: Another reason for a reamer: every tool you jam into taper, centers, drill chucks etc, can be scratched or gouged by any dings or high spots.

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    I have wire brushed ID if rusted and then cut off a taper shank tool tang and rouged its surface and hand lapped to make Ok.

    Dont see the kind we used to use here
    Sorry! Something went wrong!

    Clover-. the kin I used to use.
    https://www.mscdirect.com/industrial...-compound.html

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    Texasgunsmith, thanks a million. For all that info. Plan on ordering 4"x1" steel discs and counter boring them for the leveling feet per the manual. My millwright buddy let me borrow these. I just need a precision ground straight edged that's long enough to across the bed longetudinaly. Will definitely look for a test bar that fits the taper. That sounds like a great idea. Any good video suggestions on setup of a lathe like you suggest? I'm sure I can find one myself, but appreciate anything you might find comprehensive. Thanks again.pxl_20201125_183653285.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ja_cain View Post
    Texasgunsmith, thanks a million. For all that info. Plan on ordering 4"x1" steel discs and counter boring them for the leveling feet per the manual. My millwright buddy let me borrow these. I just need a precision ground straight edged that's long enough to across the bed longetudinaly. Will definitely look for a test bar that fits the taper. That sounds like a great idea. Any good video suggestions on setup of a lathe like you suggest? I'm sure I can find one myself, but appreciate anything you might find comprehensive. Thanks again.pxl_20201125_183653285.jpg

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
    Leveling longitudinal is less of a concern, it won't affect accuracy. Many set longitudinal slightly high on head stock side. This is done so any potential oil or coolant will flow toward chip pan or tail stock side. I'd set up maybe .010-.020" per foot high on headstock side, for this reason. You can use level directly on a flat way of bed, for longitudinal.

    Leveling front to rear of lathe is critical for accuracy, as bed can slightly twist. You want to check level, front and rear, close to head stock, and the opposite end by tail stock.

    The levels your buddy lent you are Starrett No 98's. They are good for .005" per foot. They will definitely get you close, and depending what your expectation, may be good enough. The end result may be let's say .002" to .003" off in accuracy of bed level. If you are obsessive, a Starrett No 199 is good for .0005" per foot. That would get bed to within let's say .001" of level.

    I don't know a vid off hand, but I have been writing a thread on it in the South Bend section starting about here:
    Getting Another South Bend 16x6 Operational

    Disclaimer on that: I'm not grinding or scraping the bed, or any of the parts. I just don't have that skill set yet. So to get the headstock aligned I needed to shim it. Guys real serious about machine reconditioning would frown on that, as hand scraping in is a higher level of craftmanship. Anyway, I need to do what I can for best over all accuracy. I do level and use test bars on HS and TS there. I'm in the midst of the tail stock now.

    I'll be running a total bed, headstock, and tail stock alignment on a Monarch 61. I've got reamers and test bars for HS and TS for it. But based on current schedule, I'm probably 2 months from posting that. That'll be in this thread:
    Getting a Monarch Series 61 Back in Service

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    I was advised by a pro to get a drill chuck shank with correct taper and twirl it around with the correct grinding compound.
    You mount a center in the headstock and bring the tailstock up to the head with shank inserted.
    Then just spin the shank around a few times with compound.
    Inspect and repeat.

    The compound is not supposed to hold carbide particles, otherwise the taper will have those things in the metal surface.
    I don't remember the name of this compound but it is supposed to degrade to harmless dust.

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    QT:[I was advised by a pro to get a drill chuck shank with the correct taper and twirl it around with the correct grinding compound.] You need chop of the tang to spin, back and forth by hand then give a quarter turn and back and forth again, the other end pushing against a slug held in your chuck. If chuck was true it could be held in your chuck. might not be good to hold in chuck if the tail was not in line with chuck.

    Clover is a very good compound and comes in different grits but for $50 bucks for a one-pound can.

    Valve lapping compound can be had at an auto parts store for about $6.00 but I don't know the grit.

    light rust comes pretty clean, deep pitted rust can be a bugger and may need a reamer.

    Getting rid of the surface rust will reduce the dulling of the reamer if reamed is due.

    INHO.

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    Probably, the compound is Timesaver.
    A couple of concerns with such approach. First, with non-embedding abrasives, you are removing material from both surfaces (i.e. the tailstock quill and the taper itself: after ruining enough tapers, probably you would get a decent result.

    Second, if the tailstock is not perfectly aligned with the headstock first, you would likely create a oval hole, likely oblongating in the vertical direction the existing hole. Even in a brand new machine you could have some issues, since the quill should be pointing slightly upward to accommodate for some of the wear that will develop.

    If you really want to go cheap, you might try gluing strips of high quality sandpaper with thin back to the proper taper shank and maneuver the contraption by hand. You need to replace the paper very frequently: if you let any debris accumulate, you risk to cut even more circular grooves than what already exists.

    As said, the best, fastest, and most accurate method is touching it up with a finishing reamer preferably by hand.

    Paolo

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    found it 280 grit clover,'
    Sorry! Something went wrong!

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post

    Clover is a very good compound and comes in different grits but for $50 bucks for a one-pound can.
    I have a can of it. Contains silicon/carbide. Should not use in a tail stock. The particles imbed into the metal. Every time a taper shank is inserted/extracted the wear is greater.
    A lapping compound that breaks down into harmless fine particles is what you want.

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    To summerize, wire brush and WD 40. Then a MT shank with tang removed and lapping compound that breaks down or just get the finish reamer. Emory cloth glued to a brush or something might be an option too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Leveling longitudinal is less of a concern, it won't affect accuracy. Many set longitudinal slightly high on head stock side. This is done so any potential oil or coolant will flow toward chip pan or tail stock side. I'd set up maybe .010-.020" per foot high on headstock side, for this reason. You can use level directly on a flat way of bed, for longitudinal.

    Leveling front to rear of lathe is critical for accuracy, as bed can slightly twist. You want to check level, front and rear, close to head stock, and the opposite end by tail stock.

    The levels your buddy lent you are Starrett No 98's. They are good for .005" per foot. They will definitely get you close, and depending what your expectation, may be good enough. The end result may be let's say .002" to .003" off in accuracy of bed level. If you are obsessive, a Starrett No 199 is good for .0005" per foot. That would get bed to within let's say .001" of level.

    I don't know a vid off hand, but I have been writing a thread on it in the South Bend section starting about here:
    Getting Another South Bend 16x6 Operational

    Disclaimer on that: I'm not grinding or scraping the bed, or any of the parts. I just don't have that skill set yet. So to get the headstock aligned I needed to shim it. Guys real serious about machine reconditioning would frown on that, as hand scraping in is a higher level of craftmanship. Anyway, I need to do what I can for best over all accuracy. I do level and use test bars on HS and TS there. I'm in the midst of the tail stock now.

    I'll be running a total bed, headstock, and tail stock alignment on a Monarch 61. I've got reamers and test bars for HS and TS for it. But based on current schedule, I'm probably 2 months from posting that. That'll be in this thread:
    Getting a Monarch Series 61 Back in Service
    Sorry about the mix-up on longitudinal vs front to back. Makes sense it's relative to the operator. Will definitely check out those threads! Thanks again for your help.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

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    I used a Morse taper reamer. Put a dead centre in the chuck. The point of of the dead centre goes in the centre hole at the non business end of the reamer. Advance the tailstock up to the centre with the reamer in place until everything is a nice snug fit. You can then turn the reamer with an adjustable spanner whilst you are applying slight pressure with the tailstock hand wheel. A bit of cutting paste won't hurt.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Before you use the center in the headstock method to center the reamer, you need to double check the alignment of the tailstock first. Extend the quill and check it lengthwise to insure it is parallel to the ways. Then chuck and turn a plug that is the same od as the quill. Now you can use the carriage to move an indicator to compare the alignment of the plug to that of the quill. Offset or shim to get the tailstock dead nuts to the spindle. In case of slight errors, use the same quill extension for alignment as you use for reaming.

    This tailstock setting is not an absolute! Different positions on the bed may require offsetting the tailstock slightly to get straight work when turning work between centers.

    If the tailstock center can't be adequately repaired, it can be replaced with a straight od morse taper socket. Thats a story for a different time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Before you use the center in the headstock method to center the reamer, you need to double check the alignment of the tailstock first. Extend the quill and check it lengthwise to insure it is parallel to the ways. Then chuck and turn a plug that is the same od as the quill. Now you can use the carriage to move an indicator to compare the alignment of the plug to that of the quill. Offset or shim to get the tailstock dead nuts to the spindle. In case of slight errors, use the same quill extension for alignment as you use for reaming.

    This tailstock setting is not an absolute! Different positions on the bed may require offsetting the tailstock slightly to get straight work when turning work between centers.

    If the tailstock center can't be adequately repaired, it can be replaced with a straight od morse taper socket. Thats a story for a different time.
    Using the centre to apply pressure to the reamer allows the reamer to find it's own alignment. Your tailstock would have to be out a long way for the centre to have any real influence on the alignment of the reamer.

    Regards Tyrone.


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