Bought a Pratt & Whitney 12x30, need to move it now.
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  1. #1
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    Default Bought a Pratt & Whitney 12x30, need to move it now.

    So if any of you are familiar, I made a mistake in identifying the lathe I bought. The pics weren't great and never showed the actual marking on the ways, so I tried to use google images to identify it. After more "googling" Im sure its a 12x30, and not a 16x30 I had thought it was. Im ok with that. Its a little lighter, smaller footprint, and to be frank I dont need the 18 1/2" swing the 16" offered. I thought I was getting a steal for a 16", but its now just an ok deal for a 12". Im not mad at it.

    But now I need to move it. I called around and found a hydraulic drop deck trailer, but they insist I need a 3/4 ton truck to even rent it. So Im calling around to friends, and friends of friends, that I think may own a 3/4 ton truck. I have a 1/2 ton and with no amount of explaining that the gross trailer weight would still be less than half of my towing capacity, they politely said No.

    So Ive found some material on the net, mainly from Vintage Machinery web site, and got the dimensions I needed. Im thinking of building 2 wooden skates by making it out of 2x4 and 500lb casters. Thinking about 4 casters per skate, and then screwing the front and back ones together after its up on wheels with a 2x4 in the middle in between them to ease any stress on the legs. Thinking with a come along and ratchet straps I can get it up on the trailer without too much problem. I dont have an engine lift, and a forklift is "available" but i dont want to rely on that. So Im trying to think of a way to elevate each side high enough to slip the skates underneath.

    And I know a lot of you are thinking that this sounds like an amateur idea. You're right. I've never moved something like this before. I can say that I have a healthy respect for all my digits and limbs, and have done my homework by reading many posts on here and other forums about the tips, dangers, and hairy tales of other machinery moves.

    Im sure you've heard that before.

    I still need to get a date set to go get it, so for now Im collecting things like pry bars, wood, casters, straps and what not.

    Anyone see why my method wouldn't work to get it on the trailer?

    Once on the trailer I plan to use 6 straps. 2 around the headstock and to each corner of the trailer, 2 around the bottom of the way frame close to where it attaches to the base the same way as the head stock. Then 2 going across the lathe but still pulling forward and rear of the trailer. I think this should limit all movement and make it 150 miles to home.

    And if anyone has any ideas or thinking Im crazy and have a better way of doing it, please let me know. I never have a problem with getting direction and instruction from people more knowledgeable than myself.

    Thanks for taking the time to read all of this.

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    Working on better pics to put in here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails footprint.jpg   rigging.jpg  

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    I have a P&W 12x30. I don’t like your plan. Too difficult to get it up on those skates and way too tippy front to back to be up on those casters. The head and tail bases are both pretty large. Just take a pry bar and pry it up, then put 3/4 round bar under the base and push it around. That’s how I move mine. You have to frequently stop and move the bars so takes a while but safer. If there’s a forklift available why not rely on that? I forklifted mine both on and off. Forks fit, barely, between the bed and chip pan.


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    I can't say I'm an expert, but I have moved my share of machines. I've only moved one lathe of roughly equivalent size, and on both sides of the trip, I picked it up from above. Once with a skid loader and once from the trusses of my garage.

    The thing that scares me about your plan is the casters. If your lathe is anything like mine, almost all the weight is focused on the headstock end, and it's not evenly distributed between the front and rear of the lathe. Example: almost all the weight of my lathe is on the two backside headstock legs (because the motor hangs off the back) and the other 4 legs take quite a bit less. So you're going to need much stronger casters than 500lbs, because one of those casters will take more weight than all the others, and you don't want that one to fail. Casters can also swivel around and make things much tippier than they would be just sitting on the ground.

    I would be much more trusting of just putting it on a pallet and using pieces of steel or hard plastic underneath to help it slide. You may even be able to do away with the pallet. Anything that can flex and allow the lathe to start tipping is a huge red flag in my book.

    You didn't mention it, but I'm assuming you're trying to slide this up a ramp to get it on your trailer? I would also really want to make sure the ramp can handle the weight, and it's also going to need to be at a pretty relaxed angle for a come-along to be able to pull it up.

    Best of luck! How much does the machine weigh?

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    How far are you going?

    Rent a suitable pickup from the same place that rents the drop down trailer.

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    I saw someone ask why Im not accounting for the forklift. Because Im sure as you all know to never really trust someone elses equipment. Ive not seen what available, but Ive seen some tiny little ones I wouldnt trust to lift a tire, and then some huge one that have leaks, from the mast seals, burns oil, and whines so loud. Plus I dont have that availability when I get back to the house.

    I'm doing the drop deck because I dont have any way to lift it really when I get back to the house. With this trailer I can back into the garage, roll it off, and then return the trailer.

    I was hoping the caster idea would float. I figured with 4 of them under the headstock that it would be good for 2000lbs, and then another 2000lbs on the tail stock side. (eta: After walking the dog, I understand what your saying about the weight is shifted to the backside of the lathe, an therefor unequal load. Just thought I'd mention that.)

    I had read somewhere to be very careful lifting it by the chip pan, that it wasnt really strong enough for that. But if you think it is that may be an idea I keep in my mind when I go pick it up. I was looking at the lift picture in the manual, and it shows a rope going through the headstock base by the motor, and another rope going through the ways to a wooden block thats place perpendicular to the way. I thought that was interesting and a good image of where the center of gravity was on the lathe.

    Here is an idea, what if I find 2 pallet jacks, lift the lathe to put 2 4x4s under it and lag screw the lathe to them. Then use the pallet jacks on each end to move it around, and let it sit on the 4x4's during transport? I can run a rope or ratchet strap underneath the lathe and between the forks to tie them together so that I dont lose one of them getting it on the trailer.

    Sorry for the long read, I have one more question. Should the headstock or tailstock be on the tongue side of the trailer?

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    There is a 12x30 model B in my family, and yes be careful, they are tippy.
    A method of moving machines not often thought of is calling your local concrete company and having them use a crane truck to pick up the machine and shoot it up your drive way. They get hired by all kinds of contractors and individuals to move all kinds of things, and very reasonable.
    I can have a machine delivered to the concrete company, they will pick it off a truck at their plant, and deliver it with the crane truck. Might be worth keeping in mind. And always think "minimum handling reduces risks"!

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    The pallet jacks and 4x4s plan sounds pretty decent. I didn't realize you were using a drop trailer, from the original post I got the idea that the drop trailer was out. If all you're trying to do is get it onto the trailer deck (that's been dropped) I think I would just scootch it over with pry bars and rollers until one end is onto the trailer deck, then maybe play around with rollers and the come along to keep scootching it onto the deck. Don't hang around under the tippy side of the lathe with your head down though.

    To answer your question about which direction to load the lathe: It just depends on the layout of the trailer. As with any other trailer load, you want the weight mostly centered over the axle(s) with a bias towards the tongue. Depending on where the center point of the weight of your lathe is, you can figure out if you need to load it headstock first or tailstock first. On my lathe, the center of the weight was right where the chuck is mounted, when the tailstock and carriage are all the way at the other end.

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    I'm not surprised on that trailer. If its a tandem axle Biljax style those things are pigs. The one time I used one it was pushing my 2500 heavy duty all over the place. It towed worse than my old 15K beaver tail trailer.

    When I moved my Monarch 12CK 54 inch bed I had the rigger sit it on my tilt deck trailer (auction included rigging). When I got home I used a toe jack to lift the machine up going side to side and front to back slowing putting in blocking. The goal was to get it up high enough to build my pallet under it. That consisted of three 4x4s length wise and I used 2x6's across those to build a pallet under the machine. I then used two pallet jacks to lift just enough to get it to slide. The power winch on the trailer was then used to roll it off. Just remember you need the skid to be wide as possible for stability. Lathes like this are top and very back heavy. So make sure the pallet extends beyond the rear of the machine and play around with the toe jack when lifting to find the balance point front to rear. That is where you want to center up the pallet jack when you lift to move. I was able to move it off the trailer myself but a helper would have been helpful. Once it was on the ground it was a bear so my wife had to run the front pallet jack. Now with a short bed lathe you may be able to place the lathe with the head stock to the rear on the trailer. So once you build the skid you may be able to use one pallet jack and allow the tail of the pallet to drag.

    move-1.jpg

    move-2.jpg

    move-3.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by VaBob View Post

    Sorry for the long read, I have one more question. Should the headstock or tailstock be on the tongue side of the trailer?
    Headstock should be forward, on the tongue side.

    One of the easiest and safest methods of moving a lathe is rolling on 1" dia bars, keeps the chances of tipping over to a minimum, and if the deck of the trailer isn't too bad can be used to get the lather on/off of the trailer.

    If you have a long prybar (Northern Tool sells some) you can move the machine yourself. once on the bars, assuming the floor or drive is fairly flat it takes a light shouve to get it moving

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    I moved my SB 14.5" by lifting the Headstock base on to a heavy duty Dolly (just the regular wooden kind).
    It was at it's limits, but moved around fine. Just used a bar, under the crossmember on the front legs, to horse it around.
    Caveat : I don't think the dolly would have done too well if there were bumps (Lip to a trailer or step up in to the garage).
    In that case, I'd use a pallet jack under the Headstock Base, and a Dolly under the tailstock legs.
    Jack it up with a lever and plywood shims OR a toeJack if you can get / build one.

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    I appreciate all the reply's guys. Really, I do.

    After calling the facility Im buying it from a couple times to confirm, I have been told they are going to pretty much drop it on my trailer. I will have them set it on the wood so I can screw it down, then strap it real well.

    BUT.......

    The facility Im picking it up at just cancelled all pick ups and appointments for this coming week. I have no idea why, or what happened, or anything really. All i know is that they called at 4pm on friday, and told me that if I have any fees for any cancellations, I can forward the fees to them so that they can reimburse me or just flat out pay for it. Something serious must have happened for them to accept a loss and pay for peoples fines. I let you know if I ever find out.

    The pipe idea is how Im going to move it into my garage. It wont be in its final resting place mostly because I will have to do some work to it to get it ready to run. Some clean up, some wiring/vfd, and what not. But of course I'll set it back on the wood while I work on it.

    So I guess thanks for reading this short update. When I get to make another appointment to pick it up, I'll start making reservations again for trailer and what not, and maybe Ill get to pick it up this time.

    Bob

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    Another option for unloading (its still not clear if you found a 3/4t truck) is to get a tow truck to lift it off, from there just roll it in on pipes.

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    Thanks for commenting Dalmationgirl,

    I have access to a 1ton dually so not an issue anymore. But thanks for reminding me to let you guys know.

    I will keep the wrecker idea in the back of my mind. I wont say its impossible at my house, but it will definitely be cramped and have a higher chance of being damaged. Im not saying I dont believe in the Ladies and Gents that may show up, I just know my luck. I think Ill stick with rolling it off on pipes and into the garage the same way. That way there if something goes wrong I have no one to blame but myself. I'll be sure to have plenty of hands and beer to fill those hands when we are done. I think everything will go smoothly if I am ever allowed to go pick it up.......

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    Well guys, I have a new appointment to pick up the lathe. Hopefully on the evening of the 7th Ill have some pics to share.

    Ive already got everything reserved and people lined up to help...again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by VaBob View Post
    Well guys, I have a new appointment to pick up the lathe. Hopefully on the evening of the 7th Ill have some pics to share.

    Ive already got everything reserved and people lined up to help...again.


    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
    2 pallet jacks and a drop deck trailer is exactly how we moved my American 16x30. It worked great. I think you're on the right track. Don't forget that the headstock on a short lathe is much heavier than the tailstock end. It'll want to tip that way pretty bad. Reference my recovery thread to see how we did it.

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    Some plans went into the wind, but move in progress! Another 70 miles to go.

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    Some pron


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    Its an early one. I refer to these as Slope Heads - made on purpose to appear similar to the Model B they were to replace.

    Made in the new in '39 shop in West Hartford - if not earlier than that


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