Cincinatti #3 Miller vs Cincinatti #2 Miller
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  1. #1
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    Default Cincinatti #3 Miller vs Cincinatti #2 Miller

    Hi Gents
    Iíve got a cincinatti #2 MI universal miller here in my shop, Iíve just gotten her going today after some small repairs - still needs more but for now I can at least use it.
    Now my question is, how many parts are interchangeable between the #2 and the #3?
    Reason being, the workshop I work in at my local steelworks as a fitter(millwright) a day or 2 a week, has an old Cincinatti #3 in there from the days of it being the Tin Mill machine shop. It hasnít been used since 2001 when I found records of someone disconnecting the horizontal spindle motor. However the vertical spindle is of the powered overarm type and still works. The table was seized going in the x axis, I managed to remove the gib and leadscrew to attempt to fix it (this was 5 years ago) but I donít have the time or resources at work to really repair the issues I found. Iím not interested in fixing this machine, but it could be a great source for spare parts if there are some interchangeable parts? Iíve already taken some levers and handwheel etc to repair my #2.
    The shop is now a boilermakers shop, and the boys are thinking of getting rid of it, but I just thought Iíd ask whether itís worth me stashing it around the corner or something for parts. Large, now mostly empty tinplate mill has plenty of room to store almost anything you want, with hardly any traffic that would notice anyway, and a 5ton crane to use if I needed to pull apart the gearbox assemblies to salvage anything if needed.
    Thanks Gents

  2. #2
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    Likely None. Not only BIGGER, but maybe entirely differing design - like 2A or 4A serial dial type - not much like the 2MI

    Say serials for both and I'll see if I can date them - it will be on the metal lube tag riveted to the column

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    Thanks John, Iíll record the numbers and post back here next week. I figured the parts could be larger, but thought Iíd ask anyway. It really doesnít cost or affect me in any way to tell the boys to keep that miller stashed somewhere anyway.

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    The #3 is a #3U
    Universal table
    Powered overarm vertical spindle
    I took the overarm supports and the dividing head as well. Unfortunately no change gears for the table for helical milling, but they might turn up somewhere in another locker or something.

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    Ok so
    The #3 at work is a #3U Dial Type
    B5603-22. Tag says made in Birmingham.

    My cinci is a #2 MI Universal.
    F5406-3
    Tag also says made in Birmingham

    One of the reasons I initially started this thread was because my cincinatti has a major issue with the ¬ďbracket under saddle¬Ē (as noted in the manual) as it is broken and snapped in two peices. This bracket is what the spline shaft on the right hand side of the machine transmits drive into to get to the table feed screws.
    Somewhere along the way someone has braze repaired this bracket but it has broken again, and was broken when I bought it which is why I got it cheap.

    The initial thought was maybe the #3 ¬ďbracket¬Ē could fit, but the manual shows this item to be different between the #2 and #3, let alone the fact the #3 is a dial type miller and the #2 is a MI.

    So does anyone have any ideas of where the get a replacement bracket? I’m in Australia so I don’t like my chances here, but how about an American spare parts dealer or wrecker?

    Perhaps it is something I could make if I had to from sections of profile cut plates? Not sure, just in the initial stages now of getting the feckin thing off.

  6. #6
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    Machines are similar vintages - mid to later fifties

    Anything can be made, just depends on the time and resources available.

    Cincy used machined castings because it was more or less a mass production effort

    Blocks and plate profiles suitably welded together serve equally as well if they are machined to fit and do the job expected of them

    Usually more fooling around with the RESULTS of welding causing DISTORTION

    Helps to know about and rigorously apply thermal stress relief, but this is not a cure all

    It goes without saying that one STARTS with the busted piece in hand to reverse engineer - which of course requires sufficient DISASSEMBLY

    Here is the 162 page parts book - might be a sketch of that part in there

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2097/15242.pdf

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    Thanks John, I got the bracket off yesterday and it wasnít as complicated as I imagined. The braze repair someone had done was garbage, did not penetrate whatsoever, but thatís life when buying old machines. Iíve done my fair share of dodgy bandaids during the 11th hour of a shift at the steel mills, so Iím by no means a saint either!

    I think I will be going down the route of re-making it from blocks and plates and welding them together with sufficient weld preps and ensuring the weld isnít in an area where most of it will be machined off in the post weld machining.

    I plan to clean it up today and bring it up to my desk to measure it and make new drawings. I may even start a new thread showing how I make it and post my drawings up for others to use if they have the same issue.

    For stress relief of the weldment I could probably knock up a bit of an annealing furnace using coke oven gas so it can sit and soak at a temperature for a good while.

    Then I will final machine the bores and sections etc.

    Thanks for your help John

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    And that link you posted Iíve downloaded that manual and put it all in an A4 binder, handy book to have when working on the machine!
    Page 76 of the actual book (page numbers printed on the pages) is the item. The large casting with the radiusíd core cast in the top.

  9. #9
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    I may even start a new thread showing how I make it and post my drawings up for others to use if they have the same issue
    That would be a treat if you get to it

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    Iíll be sure to do it, this forum has helped me many times, now itís my turn to contribute.


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