Cincinnati 0-8 vertical production mill

DMY · May 22, 2013

A few months ago I bought myself a mill. I have been doing small hobby-based metal working projects for a while, mostly for my hotrod, and a mill seemed like the next logical step. It's a Cincinnati 0-8 Vert, and seems to be from the 1940's. I wired it up last week and everything seemed to work great, including the cutting oil pump (agh what a mess) and the X-axis table feed. Here is a link to the pic: (I could not figure out how display the image on this page directly from my website.)

Picture of old Cincinnati mill

Anyway, anybody have an info for this thing? Maybe an operators manual or maintenance manual? I found a couple on the internet but they're a little pricey - I figured I'd ask here first.

ramsay1 · May 22, 2013

HERE IS ONE THAT AIN'T PRICEY.. I even felt compelled to safeguard you against the pittfalls of utter stupidity by including the "safety" section.. Ramsay1

Share PDF Books - Easy way to share your books

DMY · May 22, 2013

YOU ARE THE MAN!

I have been looking all over the place for this manual - thanks!!

On a separate note, any suggestions for tool holders? For one thing, I want to be able to drill holes. Should I be looking for a collet chuck, or a holder with a drill chuck? The drill chuck idea is nice, but for about the same price I can get a DA100 collet chuck and set of DA100 collets in 1/32 increments. The collet chuck also takes up less of my valuable Z-axis space.

Ideally, I wanted an ER20 collet chuck (or maybe even an ER25) that was nice and stubby as to preserve Z-axis space, but I haven't found anything quite like that. From what I read, the ER collets are a little better for holding end mills, and they'll hold drill bits, too.

cmike · May 22, 2013

What do you want to know? I have them, but not for sale. Add a serial number if you can.

Andy St · May 23, 2013

To help with the Z daylight on these mills you might want to consider something like this.
Techniks TE 22253s CAT40 ER32 Collet Chuck Super Rigid Tool Holder 1 10" Length | eBay

Or the hard to find #40 collets that fit right in the spindle. Although I would think the #40 spindle is the most common spindle used on manual / CNC mills. For some reason the collets are almost impossible to find. Here is a set but these have the uncommon Deckel male draw bar thread on them. So they would be hard to adapt.
Original Deckel Collets for Milling Machine 40 International | eBay

Andy

DMY said:
YOU ARE THE MAN!

I have been looking all over the place for this manual - thanks!!

On a separate note, any suggestions for tool holders? For one thing, I want to be able to drill holes. Should I be looking for a collet chuck, or a holder with a drill chuck? The drill chuck idea is nice, but for about the same price I can get a DA100 collet chuck and set of DA100 collets in 1/32 increments. The collet chuck also takes up less of my valuable Z-axis space.

Ideally, I wanted an ER20 collet chuck (or maybe even an ER25) that was nice and stubby as to preserve Z-axis space, but I haven't found anything quite like that. From what I read, the ER collets are a little better for holding end mills, and they'll hold drill bits, too.

ramsay1 · May 23, 2013

Hello: Glad I could help.. I had an operator manual for this machine but I sold it sometime back... I once had an 08 mill.. It is a very rigid machine but it is quite limited as it is a production mill...
As for tooling, you have to find tooling that will work in conjunction with the short travel of the quill as there is no knee adjustment... The mill I owned had a rasing block to give more clearance but the "z" axis was still very limited.. Ramsay1

DMY · May 23, 2013

Yes, you were a big help. I got a laugh reading those safety instructions... then a little sad when I realized I wasted 5 sheets of paper on them!

After consulting the operating manual, I realized that I have been running the machine with no oil. I don't think it's that big of a deal - it might have had a total of about 10 minutes of oil-free run time over the last 7 days that it's been running. I filled up the reservoir, and after about a minute, of run time, the oil worked its way up to the spindle bearings. Whew!! It doesn't come out very fast, but it's a cam operated pump, which I guess wasn't designed for high volume.

Yea, that Techniks ER collet chuck would be great, if only it was NMTB and not CAT.

I am thinking about buying a new Carboloy DA 100 collet chuck + new Techniks 1/32-step 1/8-9/16" collet set . I think I can get everything for about under $200 shipped, which seems reasonable to me. The chuck takes up very little Z-axis. I would like to go ER, but oh well. I can use the DA collets to grip end mills, can't I? Maybe small ones?

Lyndex makes an ER 16 and ER 25 NMTB 40 collet chuck, but they're $200 each, and tough to find at that. They're also pretty conservative on the Z-axis. Then I would have to by collets, which are a little more expensive.

ramsay1 · May 23, 2013

Hello: Glad you found out about the lack of oil... I think there is a needle valve for adjusting the oil drip to the spindle bearings as I remember... Should be a drip in the sight glass on the front of the machine..

That is a very rigid little machine but as I stated before rather lacking in utility as the travel in any direction is short...

How many feed gears do you have for it? I think I still have some of that stuff in my shop in the attic...Ramsay1

DMY · May 23, 2013

Yea, the needle valve controls the oil flow to the lower spindle bearing. I do not have a needle valve - I was thinking about making one. I was looking at the manual, and it looks like the upper spindle bearing is lubricated by the main oiling system.

I understand the machine's limitations, but I'm only in it for $300, a power cord, and a few quarts of oil, so I'm not complaining!

I only have one set of gears - I haven't counted the teeth yet so I don't know which ones I have. It's not painfully slow. I had to increase the spindle speed because the end mill was pushing the workpiece out of the vise - then it worked fine.

If you ever dig any of that stuff out, let me know! I guess the only thing I really need is the needle valve, but spare parts and gears are always nice.

ramsay1 · May 25, 2013

Dmy: Pm sent.. Ramsay1

Blazemaster · May 25, 2013

I have never seen a machine like this, maybe I don't get out enough. Very odd, 40 taper and looks very rigid but small table, short travel and very limited Z. It's like a home hobby mill on super steroids, I like it. For the price I think you did good, I think I would have grabbed it too! Can you even mount a vise on it? Maybe a vise like this

Mill Vise Milling Machine Table Vice 2 Piece | eBay

Would love to see some pics once you get it set up, thanks for sharing.

ramsay1 · May 25, 2013

I had one.. The first mill I ever owned... It is very rigid, it has rapids on the table, and backlash eliminator that you can cut out if you want...Mine had a raising block fitted to it that gave increased area under the spindle but seemed every time I wanted to machine something I was always about an inch short of what I really needed to do the job.. I found it to be great for drilling and tapping Mauser 98 receivers for scopes and Lyman sights.. I still have the fixture I made for the large ring 98 actions.... Ramsay1

Andy St · May 25, 2013

"Yea, that Techniks ER collet chuck would be great, if only it was NMTB and not CAT."

DMY
Just to let you know the cat 40 stuff can usually be used in most mills with a #40 NMTB spindle. all you have to do is make a longer draw bar and remove one of the drive keys on the spindle. In a pinch just a length of 5/8 all thread can be used for the draw bar. It has been years since I have used one of these mills so I'm not sure it will work on yours.
Andy

DMY · May 26, 2013

Thanks for the info guys!

Yea, I heard about the CAT 40 conversion but I think I am going to stick with the NMTB stuff for now. If I remember correctly, I think my drawbar has two different threads on it... or something funky like that. I just bought a screw machine drill set and a DA100 collet chuck that should work really nice and fit without modification. If it comes in and everything looks good, I'll go ahead and get some collets and see how it works.

Ramsay, the riser idea seems interesting. You don't have any of those laying around, do you?

ramsay1 · May 27, 2013

Hello DMY: No I don't have much of the machine left.... The riser looked to be machined from a block of steel and I think it gave about six inches of lift ..I remember I had a Starrett machine vise and I had to build a raising block to go underneath to utilize it... Ramsay1

Gary Bauer · May 29, 2013

Hello ramsay,
How did that riser block attach to the mill column ?? Through dovetails ???

Thanks,
Gary in AZ

ramsay1 · May 29, 2013

Hello Gary: The block attached through dovetails to the best of my memory.. It has been some time since I had it though.. Ramsay1

locoguy · May 29, 2013

About the needle valve: my employer bought one of these machines at a school auction for almost nothing. We set it up to play with it to see what it would do, but oil sloshed out of the spindle quill, around the "seal". Paid thru nose to Cincy Tool for a manual, only to find out that there is NO seal to leak. Also discovered there was supposed to be a needle valve to regulate oil flow. Cincy Tool wanted $900 for the sucker! Made one from 1/4 inch brazing rod, using drawing in pricy manual as a guide: cost about $25 to make.

At one time we set it up for a simple job, but now it is out to pasture, though covered under roof.

sfriedberg · May 30, 2013

Blazemaster said:
I have never seen a machine like this, ... Very odd, 40 taper and looks very rigid but small table, short travel and very limited Z.

This is the first 0-8 vertical that I've seen a picture of. This series of machines (0-8, 1-12, and larger) were more common in the horizontal format. A manufacturer would have a row (or a room full) of these machines, each fixtured and dedicated to a single operation. Workers would stuff parts in the fixture, cycle the machine, come back in a minute to unload the parts and move them down the line to the next operation. This is the same basic market that the hand millers (later with pneumatic-powered automatic cycles) like the Nichols and Burke sold into, but a much stouter machine with built-in (rather than bolt-on) feeds and cycle controls.

I don't know as much about them as I would like, but I believe they were somewhat modular in construction, and Cincinnati would install the appropriate cycle control cams for the operation(s) you ordered the machine to do.

While not useless in a general shop, they have some serious limitations. Like no Y travel, essentially. You bolt the fixture down where you need the cut to happen. On the horizontals, you can fine tune the Y location of the cut by putting spacers on the cutter arbor, and dialing the whole spindle in or out of the machine (no more than a few inches of adjustment). Presumably the verticals had some similar capability. Maybe ramsay1 can tell us about that.

Added in edit: I just went back and looked at the linked photo. Looks like the whole ram moves in and out on a vertical, like a Van Norman.

ramsay1 · May 30, 2013

Hello: The "Y" axis is in the head of the machine.. You can move the head toward you or away from you with the handwheel on the left side facing the machine...There is no "knee" crank and the only "Z" axis movement is accomplished by the spindle itself....
There is a fine adjustment for the spindle travel so that precise feed can be accomplished...
I think my machine came from Browning Arms Co in Canada and was probably used in conjunction with many others in the manufacture of handguns.. Each machine had a specific step of the operation and had the required fixture and tooling affixed..
The Cincinnati 08 is a very rigid machine with final drive of spindle via helical gears and is capable of taking heavy cuts but it is rather limited in movement in each axis... Ramsay1

Cincinnati 0-8 vertical production mill

Plastic

Titanium

Plastic

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Titanium

Plastic

Titanium

Plastic

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Titanium

Stainless

Plastic

Titanium

Aluminum

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Titanium

Similar threads