Cincinnati #2 mill starter tripping
Close
Login to Your Account
Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Winder, GA
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Cincinnati #2 mill starter tripping

    I would like some help getting a replacement / repair on a starter for an old #2 mill. The starter keeps tripping, requiring resetting of this button:

    image2.jpg

    I found similar entire starter assemblies on ebay by searching for "709 allen bradley starter" or similar, but found nothing identical. So, if someone could explain exactly how to properly source a modern equivalent that would be great as an alternative to replacing with an original.

    Here's more in the way of information about the machine itself:

    num2plate.jpg

    And:

    image4.jpg

    Thank you,

    Toot

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Riverdale, Nebraska, USA
    Posts
    817
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    106
    Likes (Received)
    57

    Default

    Does it run for a “while” before tripping?

    What voltage are you running mill on, and is that the voltage heaters were sized for?

    You’re picture of the starter would be more useful if it showed the whole thing.

    I think you’ll find two “modules” marked Nxx towards bottom of starter. Those are the heaters and need to be sized according to motor full load amp draw (FLA) at voltage motor is wired for.

    Often, an industrial machine is wired for HI/480 volts and when run on LOW/240 volts heaters are to small for resulting doubling of amperage.

    A more modern starter would have heaters on all three legs, but lots of old AB’s use just two. This is OK mostly....

    You probably just need bigger heaters. May not be easy to find.

    To give a better answer, requires more back ground info.

    Scott

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    30,858
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    W56 good for 5HP on 240V here (Post #32)

    P&W 12" Vertical Shaper

    good luck

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,896
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    486
    Likes (Received)
    3757

    Default

    The wiring diagram shows overload devices on all three legs. You need to pull one of the overload devices (heaters) and see the marked size. You then compare the size to an appropriate table that lists the size necessary for the full load amps (FLA) of your motor. If you are within an amp or two that is probably not your problem. If, as SVS posted, it is rated for 1/2 full load amps, it is your problem. Finding the correct heaters may be difficult if its an obsolete starter.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    West Virginia
    Posts
    4,067
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    452

    Default

    There should be a heater chart included inside the starter enclosure, along with the schematic you posted (though they can fall out, be painted over, or otherwise destroyed). As others have said, determine if you starter has the correct heaters for the voltage you're running the motor on before replacing the whole unit.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    New York State
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    47
    Likes (Received)
    98

    Default

    Was this machine working in your shop and then started acting up or did you just get it home and are having trouble with it tripping?

    If you have had it running, it has been my experience that switches don't really go bad like that and I would suspect the heaters are sized for the switch. I'd be searching for an issue that is causing excess load on the mill.

    If you have just brought it home, I would give the same advice, but also with the caveat that if it is running 220v instead of 440v, the heaters will need to be changed to allow for the increased amperage.

    Peter

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Winder, GA
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    It was recently installed in a garage and is on a rotary phase converter. Pretty sure the previous owner had it on regular 480.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    West Virginia
    Posts
    4,067
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toot Uncommon View Post
    It was recently installed in a garage and is on a rotary phase converter. Pretty sure the previous owner had it on regular 480.
    So what voltage is it on now? If on a rotary converter, I'd assume 240, which would probably meant that the heaters need to be changed out.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    30,858
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Has the listing for heaters for the 709 - but you will have to look at yours and see what "size" it is like a 1

    allen bradley heaters for starters - Bing

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    New York State
    Posts
    785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    47
    Likes (Received)
    98

    Default

    It may need a coil as well as heaters if you are going from 440v to 220v. That is a much easier diagnosis and solution than chasing after an actual trip. There are plenty of mag switch parts on eBay.

    Pete

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    West Virginia
    Posts
    4,067
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crzypete View Post
    It may need a coil as well as heaters if you are going from 440v to 220v. That is a much easier diagnosis and solution than chasing after an actual trip. There are plenty of mag switch parts on eBay.

    Pete
    Good thought. If it has a transformer to step the control voltage down that could potentially need looking at too.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    port allen, louisiana usa
    Posts
    1,786
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    501
    Likes (Received)
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    Good thought. If it has a transformer to step the control voltage down that could potentially need looking at too.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    My Kearney and Trecker 2hl universal horizontal came from the Navy and was wired for 440....I had to rewire the motor pigtails, change the overloads out for twice the amperage, and as the machine had a 440 starter coil in the square d starter, that had to be changed as well.. You need to make sure that your starter is large enough for the amperage you are going to be using as well...Cheers; Ramsay 1


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •