Cincinnati Monoset to Weldon Tooling

SteelMillMachine · Mar 10, 2021

This topic seems to have been covered several times, but I am more confused now than when I started researching this tooling. I would appreciate some help identifying what type of tooling I am working with.

I recently acquired a Cincinnati Toolmaster (tracer mill version), and an adapter has been installed to adapt the monoset collets to Weldon. This conversion does not appear to be unique, and I have read the several older posts on this subject. After reading those posts I was confident my adapter would use the QH end mill holders. I even bought some assuming they would work, but they are far too large. The QC size holders appear to be too small and of a slightly different design. The taper measures close to #40nmtb, but not identical. I do have one holder that came with it. It is marked CTM-5 E6. Has anyone encountered these holders before?

Elwood1968 · Mar 10, 2021

Not familiar with the adapter you mentioned. The pic looks like some sort of NMTB design, which would require a drawbar through the spindle?

Does your Toolmaster (is it actually a Contourmaster?) have the Superflex C (aka monoset) taper and retention nut on the end of the spindle? Cincinnati did make a range of Weldon type adapter collets for the Superflex C style Toolmasters (the "A" and "B" models) in 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" and 3/4" sizes. My Toolmaster B came with with 5/8" and 3/4", but I've yet to find the two smaller ones for sale.

SteelMillMachine · Mar 11, 2021

Elwood1968 said:
Not familiar with the adapter you mentioned. The pic looks like some sort of NMTB design, which would require a drawbar through the spindle?

Does your Toolmaster (is it actually a Contourmaster?) have the Superflex C (aka monoset) taper and retention nut on the end of the spindle? Cincinnati did make a range of Weldon type adapter collets for the Superflex C style Toolmasters (the "A" and "B" models) in 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" and 3/4" sizes. My Toolmaster B came with with 5/8" and 3/4", but I've yet to find the two smaller ones for sale.

You are correct, it is indeed a Contourmaster. I had it in my mind that the Contourmaster was just the tracer mill version of the Toolmaster.

I had assumed the spindle has the Monoset taper, but I do not actually know that to be the case. There is no drawbar through the spindle. The collets are retained with a retention nut as you mentioned. This adapter threads on in place of the retention nut. I'm fairly certain it actually has Weldon stamped on it, but I will double check this evening. I will also snap a picture of the adapter I am referring to.

SteelMillMachine · Mar 13, 2021

OK, both the adapter and the end mill holder are stamped Weldon. The adapter is # TM E6. Any ideas?

Elwood1968 · Mar 13, 2021

Unfortunately, the only Weldon catalog that I have on hand is No. 12, which shows the other types (NST50, NST40, Morse, etc.) of Weldon quick change adapters, but not this one for the Superflex (aka monoset) taper.

However, the retaining nut and end mill adapter photos that you posted sure suggest that Weldon at one time made a quick change adapter for the Cincinnati Superflex collet system, to eliminate having to unscrew the retention nut and extract the collet/endmill holder/whatever from the spindle nose. I'm not sure how much a time saver it would be, as the Weldon quick change adapter still requires the two set screws to be backed off to remove the adapter, and then screwed in the retain the adapter.

So it looks like you have the retention nut, and one size (3/4") of end mill adapter. I'd bet that the taper on that end mill adapter is the same (3-1/2) as a Superflex collet. If you can find some of the other Weldon end mill size adapters, you'd have a workable system. Or you could find a regular retention nut and a selection of Superflex collets, and go back to the Cincinnati factory system.

As for the Contourmaster, I believe that Cincinnati made at least two generations of the machine. The second generation used the column and knee from the Toolmaster, and a special ram to allow for the tilting head of the tracer setup. See: www.lathes.co.uk/contourmaster

SteelMillMachine · Mar 14, 2021

Elwood1968 said:
Unfortunately, the only Weldon catalog that I have on hand is No. 12, which shows the other types (NST50, NST40, Morse, etc.) of Weldon quick change adapters, but not this one for the Superflex (aka monoset) taper.

However, the retaining nut and end mill adapter photos that you posted sure suggest that Weldon at one time made a quick change adapter for the Cincinnati Superflex collet system, to eliminate having to unscrew the retention nut and extract the collet/endmill holder/whatever from the spindle nose. I'm not sure how much a time saver it would be, as the Weldon quick change adapter still requires the two set screws to be backed off to remove the adapter, and then screwed in the retain the adapter.

So it looks like you have the retention nut, and one size (3/4") of end mill adapter. I'd bet that the taper on that end mill adapter is the same (3-1/2) as a Superflex collet. If you can find some of the other Weldon end mill size adapters, you'd have a workable system. Or you could find a regular retention nut and a selection of Superflex collets, and go back to the Cincinnati factory system.

As for the Contourmaster, I believe that Cincinnati made at least two generations of the machine. The second generation used the column and knee from the Toolmaster, and a special ram to allow for the tilting head of the tracer setup. See: www.lathes.co.uk/contourmaster

Thank you for all of the information. I really appreciate you taking the time.

I would certainly prefer the Weldon system, but I will look into obtaining a retention nut for the Superflex collets if all else fails.

Has anyone seen these Weldon end mill holders with the Superflex taper for sale anywhere?

What about a Superflex collet retention nut?

Clake986 · Mar 15, 2021

Toolmaster Superflex Collets

Hello, I have re-tooled my machine and have the original Superflex collets for sale if anyone is interested.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-Toolmaster-Superflex-Collets-/233930387087?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Elwood1968 · Mar 15, 2021

SteelMillMachine said:
Has anyone seen these Weldon end mill holders with the Superflex taper for sale anywhere?

Yours is the first I've seen of these Weldon quick change adapters for the Monoset collets, and I've been searching for and buying Superflex items for several years.

What about a Superflex collet retention nut?

The nuts by themselves show up from time to time, but the sellers on eBay often think they have some sort of gold plated piece. However, you can find the nut as part of an NMTB40 adapter for a much more reasonable price such as here: Cincinnati-Monoset-Collet-Holder-NMTB40

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