Cincinnati toolmaster gear shaping
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  1. #1
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    Default Cincinnati toolmaster gear shaping

    So im new to the machinist side, ive been a mechanic for a lot of years now though. I stripped down my toolmaster i just bought and found a few gears were stripped and the table feed bearings are gone. Whats stopping me from using some brass or bronze and fabricating new bushings/turning new gears? Btw does anyone have blueprints for those gears by now? Diametrel value, pitch angle/pressure angle, etc... thank you all for your help in advance, and yes i did buy a book on gear shaping, i just thought id ask first.

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    I have not seen blueprints for those, but also have not looked specifically.

    I do know that I would trade a pretty-much-working* x-power feed from my Toolmaster 1D for a mid-range commonly-available power feed unit. (Mine is 3-phase, but replacement could be single.)

    Of course, you could go that way, too. But if you want to stay OEM, it's an option.


    *Meaning, it won't stay engaged at some settings. Probably some pins that have become shear pins, functionally...

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    Chip, any chance youd just sell it to me? The company who bought Milacron wants a mint for the parts. Id rather give the money to someone who could use it. Any chance this may work? Thanks for the reply, im happy to see that at least someone still plays with cincinnati stuff!

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    You might want to send a PM to cmike and see if he has or knows of any prints for these Toolmaster gearboxes.

    I'm guessing from the first photo that you have a later Toolmaster with the multi-piece slip gear at the top of the table feed gearbox? The earlier machines used a solid gear cut from steel, but yours appears to be a brass or bronze center?

    toolmaster-table-feed.jpg

    I just finished rebuilding the table feed gearbox and pancake motor on my early Toolmaster 1-B, . These aren't complicated boxes, but they are subject to neglect and abuse. Fortunately, the gears in mine were in good shape, but the Woodruff key that secures the drive reduction gear to its shaft is a bad design. I had to turn the shaft undersized, repair the damaged Woodruff key slot in the shaft, bore out the gear hub, and make a sleeve to press fit between the shaft and gear hub. Instead of a Woodruff key, I used a roll pin to secure the gear hub - sleeve - shaft. It seems to be working well so far.

    toolmaster-table-feed-2.jpg

    Here's the gearbox during reassembly. All new bronze SAE 660 bearings. The repaired "B" shaft has not yet been installed. Someone had been into this box previously, and done some partial repairs, but they hadn't been careful to adjust the bearing positions to allow for full enagagement of the gears, and given the narrow tooth with, full engagement is critical.

    100_1022.jpg

    And here's the repaired reduction gear with sleeve on the shaft, getting ready to drill for the roll pin. This new arrangement required a slightly different assembly procedure into the gearbox.

    100_1021.jpg

    I also had to have the Fairbanks-Morse pancake motor rewound, as a previous owner had rewound it for 440v 3-phase only, i.e. it only had three leads brought out, instead of the original nine, and we're running 240v 3-phase.

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    A ppart number on the gear,will help.

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    Thats a beautiful setup! What pint did you use on the inside?

    Heres the parts list, im open to suggestions. I called a company called Hillery Machine out of texas and was quoted over 1100$ for the gear. Thats brand new through Fives, the company that bought Milacron. I hope to have my gearbox as nice as yours before long.

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    Elwood, what did you do about bushings, were they also salvageable?

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    II know Hillery. I They are located in Texas. I will see what i have in prints. I know a couple of places to check.
    Just came from a pick up at a auction. A K & T wasn't even bid on. A small Cincinnati went for 125.00.
    I had a customer in Ga. send a Vercipower to the scrap yard. I was a 1965 and in running condition. I hate seeing these machines go like that. It just weight too much to get someone to buy it , 5 thousand would have bought it.
    T

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquecollector View Post
    What pint did you use on the inside?
    That's red Glyptal enamel, an electrical insulating paint that works really well for sealing the inside of castings. I stripped the housing, bead blasted it, applied a phosphate etching wash, then two coats of Glyptal and baked it for two hours at 265degF. (Don't use your kitchen oven! The fumes are toxic.)

    When I bought my Toolmaster, the table feed gearbox was leaking badly from multiple spots, mostly due to shoddy repair work. But I've fought with casting porosity before, and was taking no chances when I put this one back together.

    Heres the parts list, im open to suggestions. I called a company called Hillery Machine out of texas and was quoted over 1100$ for the gear. Thats brand new through Fives, the company that bought Milacron.
    Ouch.

    The sliding gear (118C) would be fairly simple to make if you have the shaping attachment on your Toolmaster and a dividing head or rotary table with index.

    The two ball bearings on the worm input shaft from the motor are commercial items, so they shouldn't be hard to source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquecollector View Post
    Elwood, what did you do about bushings, were they also salvageable?
    None of the bronze bushings were re-usable, except for the two on the "C" shaft, which aren't really bushings. Since the gear on the "C" shaft has its own bushings, the shaft is fixed to the housing and the "bushings" at each end of the shaft are really just there to hold the shaft in place.

    I had to make all new bushings. Since some of the shaft ends were scored or damaged, new bushings were going to be needed anyway, as the shaft bearing surfaces had to be turned slightly undersized to clean them up.

    Unless you're lucky, removal of some of the bronze bushings requires drilling and tapping two holes for pulling them from the housing casting, so they're basically one-use bushings.

    Following up on my previous comment about endplay, I did add some bronze thrust washers as needed to control the position of a couple of the gears. I don't recall now exactly which ones didn't mesh exactly, but I do remember that the helical worm gear was slightly offset from the centerline of the worm shaft. Gear endplay is sensitive to how deeply some of the bronze bushings are pressed into the housing.

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    Lol, no i wont put this in my oven. I am curious what oil you recomend for the gears, table and knee. Im seeing everything from vector, dte, 80/90, good grief. Im out of my element

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquecollector View Post
    Lol, no i wont put this in my oven. I am curious what oil you recomend for the gears, table and knee. Im seeing everything from vector, dte, 80/90, good grief. Im out of my element

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    Cincinnati apparently changed their recommendation for the table feed gearbox lube on these Toolmasters, because my early manual from 1956 (Cincinnati publication No. M-1890) lists Cincinnati specification P-55; Mobil DTE Medium is one of the approved lubricants for this spec. But the later manuals that I have copies of (M-2318 dated 1963, and M-2109 dated 1985) recommend Cincinnati specification P-54, which includes Mobil DTE Heavy-Medium.

    I'm running DTE Heavy-Medium in the table feed gearbox on my Toolmaster, but I'm still using DTE Medium for the knee and saddle ways.

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  18. #13
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    Out of curiousity what is the difference between vector and dte? On paper they look extremely similar, both being iso 68 (is that correct?) Rated

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquecollector View Post
    Out of curiousity what is the difference between vector and dte? On paper they look extremely similar, both being iso 68 (is that correct?) Rated

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    Maybe you mean Vactra? - a way and slide lube

    DTE named is a gear box and bearing lube

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    You are doing nice work.


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