Cincinnati Toolmaster HV challenges

Hello,
First time post here! I recently acquired what I believe to be a near mint Toolmaster HV. I picked it up at a local vocational school. I think the students must have been rough on it at one point because I have noticed a few issues. (for all my issues I know pictures will help, I just got the machine into my shop and I am typing this at 1147 pm so pictures will come tomorrow)
1) None of the power feeds work . I believe this is because the wires to the contacter have been cut. I took the rear electrical panel of and chased the wires up through the power feed buttons on the side of the column and up to the receptacle and that is where the wires are cut. The motor for the vertical head has its own power cable, I have plugged it in and it works fine. It would appear from photos that I have seen online that the cable from the vertical motor should go into the receptacle, as should the cable from the universal head. That would mean there should be a master power cable that runs into the back of the machine energizing all the systems but that is not the case.
2) The universal head does not work. I think this may be related to the issue described above. I see where the power cable for the universal head goes into the column but i cannot find anyplace where power is actually getting to the universal head at all.
3) Power down feed on the quill does not work. The hand wheel spins but the column does not come down. I suspect that the quill lock was engaged at some point with the power feed on and a shear pin, well, sheared. I have the service manual so I will tear open the power quill feed gearbox and see if there is indeed a sheared pin. I believe I saw another post where that was the case.
4) The optical measuring equipment is completely ruined. There are what appear to be electrical connections from these devices to the electrical panel. Can I just disconnect them and remove all the broken bit?

Again, pictures are forthcoming, I needed to get all the problems out so I can think on them while I sleep.
Thanks in advance!

Mike

Look here:

Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. - Publication Reprints - Cincinnati Toolmaster electrical Diagram | VintageMachinery.org

Mike

I use to have a HV in my home shop. I still have the manuals and photos so I might be able to help. It seemed like in the past on PM I posted a photo of the electrical panel on the back that might help you (do a search). I might have the electrical diagram if the one mister honey linked to isn't right.

I loved that mill great machine.

Andy

Thanks. I have looked at the wiring diagram but I cannot see where the main power comes into the machine. All the wiring on the back panel looks in pristine condition save 4 wires that have been cut coming from the power feed control panel

peggyggm said:

Thanks. I have looked at the wiring diagram but I cannot see where the main power comes into the machine. All the wiring on the back panel looks in pristine condition save 4 wires that have been cut coming from the power feed control panel

Click to expand...

Does your Toolmaster have a rotating handle on the door of the electrical cabinet? This handle mechanically connects to a disconnect switch (might be labelled as a "circuit interrupter" on the wiring diagram) on the electrical panel when the door is in place. This circuit interrupter is where the three phase power comes in to the panel, usually through a hole on the right side (when viewed from the front of the machine) in the column casting.

If the electrical connections to the power feed motors have been cut, you might want to open the power feed gearboxes and take a look inside before re-connecting power and testing them.

Is this the Toolmaster that was on eBay recently? The one with the geared head overarm and the power feeds on the X- and Y-axis?

Thanks. My reading of the circuit diagram led me to that conclusion as well. The 4 wires that have been cut are connected to L1,L2, L3, L4 on the circuit interrupter. These lead up through the column through the push button station up to the receptacle on top of the turret. The cord coming from the vertical head had a plug on it. Is it possible that that was plugged into the receptacle on top of the turret and the motor for the geared overarm universal head was wired directly to the electrical panel? On the circuit diagram it appears that 1 MTR is for the universal head and 2 MTR is the vertical head.

That is a good suggestion, I will open up the power feed gearboxes this morning.

Yes, this is the one that was recently on eBay.

Thanks again for the help.

Mike

peggyggm said:

Thanks. My reading of the circuit diagram led me to that conclusion as well. The 4 wires that have been cut are connected to L1,L2, L3, L4 on the circuit interrupter. These lead up through the column through the push button station up to the receptacle on top of the turret. The cord coming from the vertical head had a plug on it. Is it possible that that was plugged into the receptacle on top of the turret and the motor for the geared overarm universal head was wired directly to the electrical panel? On the circuit diagram it appears that 1 MTR is for the universal head and 2 MTR is the vertical head.

Click to expand...

Four wires? The three three-phase leads and a ground? Interesting, because my Toolmaster 1B only has a three-wire circuit interrupter. Can you post a photo of the electrical panel on your Toolmaster?

Yes, most likely that the geared overarm motor, which is inside the overarm casting, was probably hard wired. The vertical motor head, which could be removed and replaced with the optional slotter head, would make sense to have a plug connection. Especially so if that Toolmaster started life as a 1-C model with just the geared overarm, and then the vertical head was added later.

HOWEVER, I would think that the leads to the overarm motor would go through a magnetic starter and then through a thermal overload protection device (the "heaters") BEFORE going up to the motor. From your description of the wiring, it sounds like the motor on the vertical head was wired directly from the circuit interrupter with no starter or overload protection!?

That is a good suggestion, I will open up the power feed gearboxes this morning.

Click to expand...

The X-axis power feed gearbox seems to have a history of stripping gears, or maybe they were just abused, but at least one member here reported buying a Toolmaster and discovering that the gearbox internals were missing. My Toolmaster X-axis gearbox was complete, but the bronze shaft bearings were badly worn, so it's apart for replacement. If all is good inside, a lube oil change is a good idea anyway.

Also, the pancake motor on my X-axis feed had been wired at some point for 440v only, so be careful if you're running 220v. In either case, be sure to check the motor wiring and heaters before hooking up the machine to verify that the setup is correct for your input voltage.