Spud
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2006
- Location
- Brookfield, Wisconsin
Was there any American made manual universial milling machine that was comparable or came close to Deckels, Schaublins, Aciera, Sixis, Abene, Hermle, Mikron ?
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Close in terms of what? As bad as? As expensive as? As noisy as?
Devlieg. Kicks ass over every single one of the above. If you ever get a chance at a 2B, grab it.Was there any American made manual universial milling machine that was comparable or came close to Deckels, Schaublins, Aciera, Sixis, Abene, Hermle, Mikron ?
Devlieg. Kicks ass over every single one of the above. If you ever get a chance at a 2B, grab it.
I'll let gbent be the fanboy this time but ad ? If you let a 2B go for scrap, and it wasn't beat to death, you truly fubarred. Nicest manual mill you will ever run. They do hold tenths. And not along a line; within the work envelope.Spud, that was a Devlieg 2B we saw at the foundry. Way too big and heavy for general purpose use it went for scrap. What is so good about it? Looked like a beast.
Tenths on a manual mill? Fantasy land dude.
You might think you are that close but you are most likely not, I don’t care what your readout says. The Euro style mill never really caught on here. We demand versatility and ease of use like a Bridgeport. The most accurate mill made here was most likely a Tree. The contact surfaces on the slideways are generous, hence stable after all we are cutting metal.
I’ve never been impressed with the oiling scheme on a manual euro mill, I feel they are worse for wear as the machine ages and will harm this so called tenths accuracy.
Now if you want tenths, spend a few grand on a Moore jig borer. Take a look at the design differences and you might understand what a tenths machine looks like.
The inspection report on the 1994 Abene I have , which was originally purchased new by United Airlines, says it is accurate to 0.0003" .
Any opinions on Brown & Sharpe No. 2 or Kearney and Trecker No.2H or 2D ?
I am not looking for one of these mills, just curious if the US ever competed with the Europeans for toolroom mills, like how Monarch, Rivett and Hardinge compared favorably with Schaublin, Mikron, Weiler, Hembrug, Cazeneuve etc..
You miss the entire point, Spud
US made machine-tools did not HAVE to be uber-versatile in frugal overall space , mass, and power budgets.
We had SPACE for as many "good ENOUGH" at their job, different achine-tool for another job, different yet.. etc.
We had MARKET enough to run every damned "flavour" of a machine as had even a tiny edge advantage, and run 'em to their very death as fast was we could MAKE them wear-out .. so as to replace them sooner with newer and better.
Ever hear of anyone wanting to "gold-plate" a wore-out Haas and burn incense in its honour? The gold goes into the bank to buy a better machine. Not onto the dead hulk of the obsolete machine that earned it.
We had LABOUR as could do more with less by being barely-decent basic specialists in their millions, not zen-master generalists in their few dozens.
That attitude of coining revenue "at a combat speed" earned the money to make it work, do it again, faster, better, and more cheaply.
Go figure China did the same.
Earned money. Not the prestige of an open-air museum.
That part, PRC left to their military.
Why fight a wasteful blood and boolits war when you can earn money fast enough in an economic war to just BUY your potential enemy and .. trigger 'im to f**k hisself up ... for amusement ...in yer spare time?
Read the dam' funny papers lately?
"QE-f**king-D"
"America" never was just "one place".
It's a state of mind.
Helluva lot of languages amongst the hard-working folk chasing that "state of mind", the world over.
Not as if we actually held any sort of enforceable patent on human endeavour, was it?
Joe Buyed-in an effective President?
Or just one more ineffective wannbee Mortician?
Guess it doesn't even MATTER ... if enough go-getters but stay on their feet rather than on their ass?
What's that MariTool Tee shirt say?
"Nobody Cares"
"Work harder"
Surely got THAT shot right!
Wonder what the writing of it looked like back around the time Sumer had their litte water problem?
If you are looking for a super accurate machine, think Jig Borer such as Moore, Pratt and Whitney, Devlieg, etc. If you want a super versatile machine, think Bridgeport, Kearney Trecker, Cincinnatti. etc. There is some cross overs, but not every job requires tenths, so not all machines were built that way (at least not until CNC came along and made the moving components so much cheaper and simpler that manufacturers could make a frame that was good for anything). The same goes for measuring tools. I don't want to pay for a +/-.000005" micrometer when the print is calling for +/- .005.
IMO it boils down to a way of thinking. Unless you are trying to mass produce injection molds and do it manually, there's no need to have an all-in-one high-accuracy machine. Each has a place.
C'mon, gbent, where are ya when we need you ?Since they required toolroom spec lathes, doesn't it stand to reason that American industry required toolroom spec manual mills? Afterall , there wouldn't have been a market here for Deckels, Mahos, Hermle and Aciera if not.
adh ma man, if you watched a 2B go to scrap, you should be crying in your cheerios.
Devlieg. Kicks ass over every single one of the above. If you ever get a chance at a 2B, grab it.
12,500 I think. I've seen bigger numbers but don't think they are accurate. My 16 Gleason weighed more, those are about 14 thou.I didnÂ’t look the weight up but looked like about 16,000 pounds to me.
You're wrong Okay, for drilling a hole not the best, but I had a drill press. For anything else, horizontal is just about as convenient. Sometimes better.The horizontal boring mill style seems limiting to me. Tell me I’m wrong.
Devlieg angle blocks are t-slotted and very versatile. Just as convenient as a Bridgeport table, except you get 36" by 24" or so to work with. The extra Y is loverly. And the chips fall down. And the bar is rigid compared to a stinky quill.A lot of work would have to be mounted to angle plates, that’s a pain.
Okay, you're off the hook then. Dirty is okay but beat to death kinda defeats the purpose.Machine was in a foundry and beat and dirty beyond belief
It'd kill me just to change tools on something that big nowArcher120x said:I'm getting the shop ready for the 4H60 (with 60" on the column) I bought.
It'd kill me just to change tools on something that big now
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