Help with Cincinnati No.2 Horizontal Mill

Hey guys,

I got a very old Cincinnati horizontal mill for cheap cheap thinking pre 1920? I'm taking it apart and giving it a much needed clean.

I seem to be having some trouble getting the spindle that was holding the slitting saws off... It seems to me that its a taper that's stuck, I've given it a good whack and plenty of liquid wrench but it won't go. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Also, I am looking to run a setup with a 3/4" collet to hold hole saws, if any one can point me in the right direction for the appropriate hardware for this let me know.

see attachments for photos.

Thanks!

I had the same model,gone to another owner a while back. Try as I might,the arbour wouldn't budge by beating at the drawer bar. Put a really good pull on it as well as working at the back. It's a B&S taper which is even shallower than a Morse.

Yep - about #10 B&S - notoriously difficult to remove - especially after having been in there for 75 years - when it was over 25 years old

I'll suppose you do know it is held in by a draw bar from the back end.

An aid to getting it "wet" with Kroil - tilt mill forward, crib up under knee as desired, take out draw bar and slop Kroil in back end of spindle and let sit for weeks at a time

Only "collet" set up will be some collet holder made for that taper

Here is one from over a hundred years back

We frown on using a BFH most of the time, but it sounds as if you need one now. If you use a small hammer all it does is bounce. Make sure the inner nut on the back is backed off and either use a 2" x 36" leaded cold roll shaft hanging from a rope overhead to be used as a battering ram or a 20 pound sledge. Be sure to wear safety classes and a good pair of leather gloves. Please come back and tell us what happens. Have fun. Rich

I remember reading somewhere that the old timers always recommended removing the tooling from a spindle when leaving for the weekend so it doesn't "settle" into the taper. IMO it's good shop practice on all spindles anyway. Lathe chucks, shallow taper CNC mill spindles, etc. Even if there's no risk of it settling, it's good to clean it out regularly.

Our Brown and Sharpe #12 took some beating to get the arbor out (also a B&S#10 taper). Just be sure your drift is well seated on all sides and hammer away.

Once it's out, be sure the socket and tool are clean and burr free. If it's coming loose, it's more likely there's something in there keeping it from properly seating than "you just need to beat it in harder."

IMO I'd stick with using the arbor for slitting saws. Less chance for something to come loose or be out of round. If you need the clearance, I'd look for a stub arbor in B&S#10.

So I got it out! I made a slide hammer using some heavy bushing stock and the arbor with a nut at the end, I now see why it was stuck, the spindle and the arbor are deeply marred.

Looks like at some point it was spinning in the taper and messed things up. I am torn about what to do.. I could take the whole machine apart and get the spindle out to have it ground to a more common taper (morse taper?) but I have no idea what that could cost.. or I can retrofit some old tooling into a collet system for this machine. Open to suggestions!

Remove raised metal from arbor and spindle bore taper

Spindle isn't hard, just tough

I'll see if I have a #10 reamer you can borrow - Sorry - no #10 B&S reamer.

Before any serious fix it effort, inside, I would want to know how good the front and rear spindle bearing journals are

Front is tapered

As to any concern over INSIDE - if you are stuck on the collet idea would it not make good sense to make a "back plate" that screws on the spindle thread and holds something useful like ER32 collet holder ?

Thumbnail a little later/larger but the same idea as to design

Now days the tooling taper has a recess grind in the center. Leaving a two piece taper and not a full taper.

...and while the spindle is out,consider setting it in the lathe and "modernising"it to 40 taper.