How to lock the saddle on a 1941 Cincinnati No 2?
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    Default How to lock the saddle on a 1941 Cincinnati No 2?

    I feel pretty foolish asking this but this machine is new to me and I can't figure it out. There's a large lever on the lower right of the knee that locks the knee, there are two hex bolts on the front of the saddle that locks the table. But for the life of me I can't figure out the saddle. I don't see any obvious levers or bolts anywhere.

    I've googled it and checked the manuals and don't see anything useful. Help a newbie brother out

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    Not exactly your mill but check this pic, do you have this lever ?

    56.jpg

    From this brochure:
    Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. (Milacron) - Publication Reprints - Cincinnati Dial Type Milling Machine Specifications Brochure | VintageMachinery.org

    the pdf:
    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2097/19877.pdf

    Edit: Apologies, but I had to edit title for search purposes.

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    I was thinking about it, and that I thought you had pics of that area, in another thread. . .

    Its missing !

    57.jpg

    Pics from this post:
    No power feed or gear changes on 1941 Cincinnati no2 horizontal

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Not exactly your mill but check this pic, do you have this lever ?

    56.jpg

    From this brochure:
    Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. (Milacron) - Publication Reprints - Cincinnati Dial Type Milling Machine Specifications Brochure | VintageMachinery.org

    the pdf:
    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2097/19877.pdf

    Edit: Apologies, but I had to edit title for search purposes.
    LOL I was confused at why the thread title changed, no problem though

    And yes, you are right, apparently it's just plain missing:



    It looks like there's a shaft in there, it's not broken or cut off - I can faintly see some turning marks on the end of it so I'm thinking maybe the shaft is pushed inside? That collar around the outside doesn't appear to have any way to come off either, so I'm guessing it has to be pushed out from the other side (probably necessitating the disassembly of the saddle, ouch). I looked at another newer manual that has exploded parts diagrams and it looks like there's a lever that's just pinned to the shaft, but I'm guessing it's supposed to protrude in order to do so. Guess I don't have a saddle lock LOL. I'm tempted to drill and tap the end of the shaft and see if I can pull it out at least. Weird though, it kinda looks like it's supposed to be that way.

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    It may or may not be broken, I can't tell. But if not broken, I think it may be possible for it to have gone inside.

    Good news. I think a relatively easy job even if you have to make the parts. It is hard to tell from original late 30's parts pic, because the diagram kind of sucks, though parts are there listed as "eccentric".

    The 1953 manual is more clear, probably the one you mentioned. Parts 506 to 510:

    58.jpg

    The end of the shaft, part #506, is eccentric. Or not round, its shaped like a cam lobe. Just turning it will lock it to knee. Maybe why it can be push in ? Its not locking by going in, It locks by cam spinning and pinching knee way.

    Anyway, not sure if handle fell off, or broke off. But Im thinking it won't pull out all the way. If you can get it removed far enough, maybe it just needs the handle. If so just watch how handle is clocked, so you can lock and release.

    Page 96 of pdf, though manual page is 86:
    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2097/22565.pdf

    Maybe a magnet or super glue the end of a bolt to it, then pull out ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    It may or may not be broken, I can't tell. But if not broken, I think it may be possible for it to have gone inside.

    Good news. I think a relatively easy job even if you have to make the parts. It is hard to tell from original late 30's parts pic, because the diagram kind of sucks, though parts are there listed as "eccentric".

    The 1953 manual is more clear, probably the one you mentioned. Parts 506 to 510:

    58.jpg

    The end of the shaft, part #506, is eccentric. Or not round, its shaped like a cam lobe. Just turning it will lock it to knee. Maybe why it can be push in ? Its not locking by going in, It locks by cam spinning and pinching knee way.

    Anyway, not sure if handle fell off, or broke off. But Im thinking it won't pull out all the way. If you can get it removed far enough, maybe it just needs the handle. If so just watch how handle is clocked, so you can lock and release.

    Page 96 of pdf, though manual page is 86:
    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2097/22565.pdf

    Maybe a magnet or super glue the end of a bolt to it, then pull out ?
    I'll play around with it tomorrow night, you've got some good ideas. Drilling and tapping it should work but sounds like a PITA. Hell, if it's stuck in there I might just tack weld a piece of scrap onto it to pull it out. Depends on how lazy I'm feeling.

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    Okay, not a great update unfortunately. I was not able to get the shaft out, it would just get stuck no matter what. So I actually managed to push it through the interior side and remove it from the saddle.



    I don't think I'm gonna be able to fix that one LOL. Not only was the shaft sheared off at the other end, but it's also bent which is why I couldn't remove it. The rest of the mechanism is gone (long gone by the looks of it). I'll have to see if I can find someone with a junk mill that could remove this unit for me because I don't even know what the remainder of the parts even look like to recreate them. I guess I'll have no saddle lock for a while

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    I'm not looking at it first hand like you are. But I was thinking of two repairs.

    First one, build it something like was intended. Its basically just a straight shaft with a sort of cam lobe on the end. For the cam lobe to actually lock, I think it would need to begin to lock damn near the peak height of the cam lobe, so that the peak of lobe would be touching ways while pushing straight down vertically on shaft, like a straight 180 degrees straight down, or close to it.

    Might make the cam lobe from a 2nd larger stock than shaft, and either bolt, pin , or weld it onto main shaft. I think very doable, but might need to slide saddle forward enough to install, and some trial and error. Remove cross feed screw maybe, while sorting it out.

    Second potential option. The hole in saddle where we originally saw the end of shaft pushed in. . . Is it possible to tap the end of that hole with some threads, maybe a .5 to .75" deep ? If so, tap the hole and make a bolt/shaft with a brass or bronze insert on interior end.

    You wont be locking saddle from same direction as original eccentric shaft. You're going to lock by basically running a bolt straight in. Brass/bronze tip keeps from scarring anything. Shaft and hole are only threaded toward the outside edge of the hole.

    Just possibilities anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I'm not looking at it first hand like you are. But I was thinking of two repairs.

    First one, build it something like was intended. Its basically just a straight shaft with a sort of cam lobe on the end. For the cam lobe to actually lock, I think it would need to begin to lock damn near the peak height of the cam lobe, so that the peak of lobe would be touching ways while pushing straight down vertically on shaft, like a straight 180 degrees straight down, or close to it.

    Might make the cam lobe from a 2nd larger stock than shaft, and either bolt, pin , or weld it onto main shaft. I think very doable, but might need to slide saddle forward enough to install, and some trial and error. Remove cross feed screw maybe, while sorting it out.

    Second potential option. The hole in saddle where we originally saw the end of shaft pushed in. . . Is it possible to tap the end of that hole with some threads, maybe a .5 to .75" deep ? If so, tap the hole and make a bolt/shaft with a brass or bronze insert on interior end.

    You wont be locking saddle from same direction as original eccentric shaft. You're going to lock by basically running a bolt straight in. Brass/bronze tip keeps from scarring anything. Shaft and hole are only threaded toward the outside edge of the hole.

    Just possibilities anyway.
    Those are some really good ideas. I think tapping it and using a soft-tipped bolt that presses up against the casting just above the cross-feed screw is probably the easiest. Making a cam is a good idea but it seems like it'd be tricky to figure out exactly the right size and shape that works and locks at just the right point. I'd have to take apart that "box" that's just under the shaft, where the splined power feed shaft comes in from the right and take a look from the bottom-up and see what I see in there. In the meantime I've got some feelers out to see if I can source the original parts (or at least see what they looked like/measurements/etc).

    Not a huge deal at the moment, the machine seems to cut great without a saddle clamp for the time being. On my BP, if the saddle isn't locked it likes to walk a little on heavy cuts, doesn't seem like it's happening with this machine (or maybe I'm not taking heavy enough cuts, I've tried 2.5" WOC .300" DOC with a facemill and 1"x1" with a HSS rougher, both in mild steel).

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    Try Cincinnati Mill Parts l Kearney & Trecker Parts l Machine Replacement Parts

    They sell parts for Cincinnatti mills, they were able to provide me with a new feed dial for my #2ML...

    They seem to be good folks to work with... they sell used parts and also make many new parts.

    -Bear

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    Quote Originally Posted by 682bear View Post
    Try Cincinnati Mill Parts l Kearney & Trecker Parts l Machine Replacement Parts

    They sell parts for Cincinnatti mills, they were able to provide me with a new feed dial for my #2ML...

    They seem to be good folks to work with... they sell used parts and also make many new parts.

    -Bear
    I agree! They're actually the ones that got me the broken saddle feed screw coupler and saved me a ton of work.

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    Ended up getting an original shaft + cam from Partsnparts (great place). Now I've got to make a handle for it and figure out how to install it. So many things to do!


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