K&T 205 S-12 Last Resort
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  1. #1
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    Default K&T 205 S-12 Last Resort

    Hello, this being my first post I would like to apologize in advanced for any mistakes I make in posting for help. We’ve recently picked up a 205 S-12. After furiously cleaning it for a few weeks, we proceeded with converting the machine to 230v. Currently running a 15hp 3 phase converter, running 460v to the machine. The primary transformer has been switched to 230v and the overload heater relays have been replaced with the correct units. We’re having a couple major issues that have no resolution after two months of research.

    1: the head is leaking excessively around the spindle while the spindle is not running. All of the atf is pumped up into the head, where it can’t escape fast enough, filling the head of the machine and draining the column reservoir. All of the fluid then sits on the spindle drive gear, leaking around the spindle, onto the table. We’ve cleaned and cleaned the aspirator. Checked all constant pressure (200psi) and lube pressure (30psi) and performed a fluid exchange. The machine worked perfect and did not leak a drop before we purchased and transported the heavy girl. Would anyone be able to shed some light on this subject?

    And last, 2: while the machine comes up to speed in all gears following a proper spindle delay (2-3 seconds), it will not power feed with the spindle running. Before starting the spindle, the contactors all come up for the feed control, and as soon as the spindle is switched on, they fall, killing the control relay for the feed motor. The only way to use the power feed is to hold the green button just below the e-stop. To be honest, at this moment we have no idea where to follow any leads or chase this issue whatsoever. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

    If anyone has access to a service manual for one of these machines, we’d love to have our hands on a copy of one! Thank you to anyone taking the time to help us out, we’re trying to get our feet wet with this machine!

    Logan


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  2. #2
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    Regarding the Second part. Common problem is motor rotation is backwards. Check for an arrow on motor pulley or flywheel

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  4. #3
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    No arrow on either the column motor or pulley. The machine is bi-directional, motor spins one way when switch is in LH rotation, spins opposite when switch is in RH rotation. Unless it’s not supposed to do that, which then we’d be pretty far off from where we thought, haha!


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    Update: as I am sitting with the machine now. The machine ONLY has makes pressure while in the RH direction. LH has no pressure and will not start the spindle.


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  7. #5
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    Questions I’d check into in no particular order-
    Does it have a separate feed motor? If so, I’d bet it cares about rotation.
    When you move a feed lever, does the feed go the same direction as the lever?
    Shouldn’t matter with RPC-BUT-Is generated leg powering the control circuit?

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    Furthermore-
    Check auxiliary contact on LH contactor. It should show continuity/voltage when engaged just like the RH contactor does when it is engaged.

    Don’t screw with this if its beyond your abilities/comfort level.

  9. #7
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    See 18 March 2016 entrees. - Might be of some use

    Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

    ph

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    I have the Maintenance Manual (Publication 214), can scan it over the weekend if you want it - let me know

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    Thank you all for the replies! We’re going to check back into it tomorrow to test and try as much as you all have suggested. Had some other things to finish up tonight. Also, we had discussed installing a small pump to replace the aspirator and evacuate the fluid dumping into the head as a temporary fix to keep it from slopping everywhere while making electrical adjustments where needed. I will keep everyone posted and provide a resolution when we have one for anyone else who may ever run across issues similar to these.


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    On the front of the knee there is a brass plug with a direction arrow above it . Unscrew it and you can see a spindle, this is where you set motor rotation with the phases

  13. #11
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    Good looking machine! Would love to get more pictures of it and maybe later a video of it running!

    I hope you get it working

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    Hey all!
    So after a busy weekend including a vacation (don’t know how I managed that,) we have figured out the power feed issue. There was a partial break in one of the feed control wires, causing chaos further down the line.
    Attached are two pictures of the MAJOR issue we have now, regarding the head leak from the original post. No bit of messing around or playing with this thing can resolve the issue. Hydraulic diagrams still show 200 psi going to the head from the column reservoir. While we have 200psi, the fluid still cannot evacuate fast enough. This machine did not leak a bit before we purchased it, and it’s on it’s way to the scrap yard if we can’t find any answers on this. Parts manuals do not show a seal of any sort around the spindle. ATF is starting to get expensive. Any advise would help tremendously!


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    I don’t understand why there is a 200 psi line going to head in the first place. There aren’t any hydraulic operated clutch packs or shifting fork cylinders up there I assume?

    Somehow the move changed volume flowing to head. Orifice, plug, cracked line or fitting-something.....

    ATF is probably far lighter than recommended.

    I’m going to call you a wuss if you give up and scrap it.

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    I’m doing all I can to persuade my boss not to get rid of it. I’d really like to play with this machine! Attached is the first diagram, where I could be wrong but under the impression head lube should be 200psi? Which doesn’t make sense because the aspirator only returns at 30psi. The second picture is the head manifold, the large line located on the left hand side is the one pushing 200psi. The fluid dumps from all these lines in the manifold like a fire hose. We performed a full fluid flush, full diesel fuel clean out of the machine, and line vacuum/pressure cleaning when the machine arrived to the shop. Every main artery and line had been cleaned, air pushed through, and verified clean. Every line came off piece by piece and put back in its original place with intensive care. All connections are tight and clean. The aspirator has been cleaned multiple times as well. The machine flows remarkably well, we just can’t understand why there is 200psi going to the head manifold. Mind you, everything is precisely in the same location it was previously. Dex 3 is the direct replacement for the MobilFluid 350 as the machine states. Are we still missing something detrimental to the lube system?


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  18. #15
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    I used to have a 415 s-15 vertical, similar hydraulics, there was a needle valve at the top manifold in the head. On mine it was adjusted so that the aspirator had just enough flow to pull the oil out.

  19. #16
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    Markp, is this the manifold you’re talking about? All we have here is a 6 direction brass block union. Thank you for the insight. I’ve read the s-12 and s-15 were extremely similar.


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    You can see a pressure regulator for the head lube on the drawing.
    Id be suspecting that

  21. #18
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    Pressbrake1, after fine tuning adjustments using spacers, we went from 25psi to a comfortable 30-32psi. That’s with a pressure gauge taking a reading at the test port indicated in the following picture. There’s a counterbalance piston in the head that has a shift fork on it, that requires 200psi. I’m thinking the column lube comes from that piston over to the manifold? There’s only one feed and one return into the head.


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