K&T 2CH universal questions

OldRedFord · Oct 1, 2020

I've purchased but not brought home a K&T 2CH horizontal with the shaft driven universal head with quill and low lead gear box.

I've already brought the gear box home and id like to find out more about it. It does not have any extra gears yet. Took a picture of the serial number if it helps.

Can't attach pictures so...

The serial number is 5 over 7911

johnoder · Oct 1, 2020

7911 is a lot of 10 Low Lead Attachments completed in July 1955

Fairly sure it came with differing worm gear sets

Manual scan that applies

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2098/6525.pdf

have fun

ramsay1 · Oct 2, 2020

OldRedFord said:
I've purchased but not brought home a K&T 2CH horizontal with the shaft driven universal head with quill and low lead gear box.

I've already brought the gear box home and id like to find out more about it. It does not have any extra gears yet. Took a picture of the serial number if it helps.

Can't attach pictures so...

The serial number is 5 over 7911

A Kearney and Trecker that is missing gears... I wonder how many people this has happened to? Some trunk monkey threw the rest of them in the scrap because they didn't know what they were for most likely.. I was fortunate to find a low lead attachment with all the gears for my 2hl universal....If you look on ebay, now and then you can find a gear or two but they know what they have so they are expensive.... Usually the drive gear for the vertical head is the gear that is awol....

Low lead attachment has three sets of worm gears and a stack of spur gears.... Cheers; Ramsay 1

OldRedFord · Oct 2, 2020

What would be the best way to chain the mill down to a trailer?

thermite · Oct 3, 2020

OldRedFord said:
What would be the best way to chain the mill down to a trailer?

My use nerly always involves one if not two old tires, size according to the load.

Freebies at the place I use, so long as I pay the disposal fee at the recycle center when done so they need not.

Use 'em like an old padded horse collar, looped over the upper or over-arms, joined with ratchet straps, rope, sub-chain - whatever suits. Then have a place to attach strps or chains, draw tension, and the goods are protected whilst in-transit shocks and road vibrations don't loosen the hold.

More that that is wanted, but the tire is a key player.

OldRedFord · Oct 3, 2020

Got the mill home safely. Serial number is 6-7829

johnoder · Oct 3, 2020

Serial number is 6-7829

Lot of 30 completed February 1956.

Mine is 7952 from August that year

Official weight on these (Universal) is 4300 and 4100 for Plain per '57 catalog

OldRedFord · Oct 4, 2020

What are the chances of finding the dividing head with plates that will match the gear box?

Hobby Shop · Oct 5, 2020

OldRedFord said:
What are the chances of finding the dividing head with plates that will match the gear box?

The dividing head and plates are easy to find. Finding the low lead gears to make it all work without going broke will be the hard part. Post a WTB in the tooling section, I’m sure someone has one they would like to get rid of.

ramsay1 · Oct 5, 2020

Hobby Shop said:
The dividing head and plates are easy to find. Finding the low lead gears to make it all work without going broke will be the hard part. Post a WTB in the tooling section, I’m sure someone has one they would like to get rid of.

Some years back, I found an almost complete low lead attachment for my 2hl universal for 800 dollars on Ebay.. All the gears were present... There were extra parts as an added bonus... The only thing that was missing was one trip rod that was easily made.. I don't think that box was ever on a machine.. I borrowed the money from paypal credit to get that unit and still do not regret it... Maybe if I live long enough, it might fetch enough money to build a new house but if I die first, it, along with most of my shop, will be sold for scrap.. lol.... Cheers; Ramsay 1

Kegs3535 · Dec 4, 2020

OldRedFord said:
Got the mill home safely. Serial number is 6-7829

ORF....not sure how you pulled it off, but you got a sweet deal there. The universal head with extension shaft like you got is damn near impossible to find. And it has the quill? Even harder to find. Add to that a low lead box, which is truly the holy grail of the K&T accessories and I would have to say you hit the lottery!!! I have 7 mills & not a one has the lead box. :wall:

The other guys are right, those gears are going to be your nemesis for a good while now. I wish you the best of luck finding them but just remember that there are lots of us out there actively searching too, so may the best man win. :cheers:

Great score man......have fun with it.

Steve in SoCal · Dec 5, 2020

I have a model H dividing head and all the plates for it, may consider selling it?

PM me if you are interested.

Steve

Kegs3535 · Dec 5, 2020

Likewise I have several K&T dividing heads and would most likely be willing to part with one to help you out. It would be nice to see you with a complete setup for your machine. PM me if you're interested.

ramsay1 · Dec 5, 2020

Kegs3535 said:
ORF....not sure how you pulled it off, but you got a sweet deal there. The universal head with extension shaft like you got is damn near impossible to find. And it has the quill? Even harder to find. Add to that a low lead box, which is truly the holy grail of the K&T accessories and I would have to say you hit the lottery!!! I have 7 mills & not a one has the lead box.
The other guys are right, those gears are going to be your nemesis for a good while now. I wish you the best of luck finding them but just remember that there are lots of us out there actively searching too, so may the best man win.
Great score man......have fun with it.

This is a full set of low lead gears for a 2hl....42,362 different leads from .0219 to 2918.4 inches...When I got my low lead attachment, it was 800 dollars on Ebay and it came with many extra "goodies" ...One trip shaft was missing but it was easy enough to make....I have not seen a complete low lead for any mill before or after I got mine.. At the time, I did not have the cash so I bought it on credit as I knew it was a one of a kind...The drive gears for K&T milling heads are unobtanium but the lead gears for K&T mills are "super unobtanium"....Would imagine these will go to the scrap man when I take my dirt nap... Cheers everyone.. Stay safe...Ramsay 1

Kegs3535 · Dec 13, 2020

ramsay1 said:
This is a full set of low lead gears for a 2hl....42,362 different leads from .0219 to 2918.4 inches...When I got my low lead attachment, it was 800 dollars on Ebay and it came with many extra "goodies" ...One trip shaft was missing but it was easy enough to make....I have not seen a complete low lead for any mill before or after I got mine.. At the time, I did not have the cash so I bought it on credit as I knew it was a one of a kind...The drive gears for K&T milling heads are unobtanium but the lead gears for K&T mills are "super unobtanium"....Would imagine these will go to the scrap man when I take my dirt nap... Cheers everyone.. Stay safe...Ramsay 1

Ramsay......go ahead and put me in your will so these don't end up going to the scrap man!! :bowdown:

I have often wondered how many of these gear sets have wound up in the scrap bin over the years. Probably most of them.......definitely enough to make you wanna puke

ramsay1 · Dec 13, 2020

Probably most of the gear sets were thrown out by some trunk monkey who had no clue as to what they fit or were used for, same as the vertical head drive gears.... I use to buy military surplus in my job and I can tell you that I have seen things together that did not in any way fit each other.. Kearney and Trecker mill with a table for a radial drill and radial drill with vertical head for that K&T, just a small example.....It is disgusting for sure. Cheers; Ramsay 1

johnoder · Dec 18, 2020

I know there is very little incentive, but it would be nice if enough PROACTIVE things were done to make it possible to reproduce the 2HL / 2CHL and 2H / 2CH low lead sets

Ramsay1 has the small set (I assume the 2H/2CH were somewhat physically larger?)

Dan in Oakland can document such things on his measuring equipment

If there were two members - one with a bare or semi bare smaller (2HL) LL box and one with a semi bare larger (2H) LL box - they could collaborate on differing center line dimensions to enable a factor to be created for use in UPSCALING documentation to enable the the making of a large set for 2H/2CH

If most or all of this happened - it then can be worthwhile to think about pattern making for casting the boxes themselves

Hobby Shop · Dec 19, 2020

johnoder said:
I know there is very little incentive, but it would be nice if enough PROACTIVE things were done to make it possible to reproduce the 2HL / 2CHL and 2H / 2CH low lead sets

Ramsay1 has the small set (I assume the 2H/2CH were somewhat physically larger?)

Dan in Oakland can document such things on his measuring equipment

If there were two members - one with a bare or semi bare smaller (2HL) LL box and one with a semi bare larger (2H) LL box - they could collaborate on differing center line dimensions to enable a factor to be created for use in UPSCALING documentation to enable the the making of a large set for 2H/2CH

If most or all of this happened - it then can be worthwhile to think about pattern making for casting the boxes themselves

Ramsay1 (thank you again

) gave me the numbers over pins for the 2HL 1:96 and 1:24 worms. We’ll have to catch up on the 8:24 later. I have no idea on how to accurately measure that worm, over ball bearings?

Maybe we should start a new updated thread with all the numbers and pictures? At this point, we have enough info to finally let the smoke out of these gears. We can put the conventional box and the auxiliary shaft information in it too. I have all the large LL gears sitting on the bench. If needed, I can measure the worms over pins and maybe someone else can confirm with their set. I’m positive some of the older worms & wheels were custom to the LL box itself. The center lines were slightly different between the two boxes I had sitting side by side.

Andy

ramsay1 · Dec 19, 2020

YVW Andy... You do know that the output shaft bearing in the low lead box is adjustable right? It gives a bit of "wiggle room" for attachments....I found this out when I first put the box on my 2hl and found that I could not install the drive shaft from the output shaft to the input shaft of my model H dividing head.. Cheers; Ramsay 1

johnoder · Dec 19, 2020

Any NORCAL folks that own some of this stuff and KNOW what they have it would be cool for them to visit Dan in Oakland - with the hardware in hand. We are talking the rather odd looking worms / worm wheels in ramsay1's photo in above post 14

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