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K&T 2HL Vertical -- deciphering non-K&T numbers.

W_Higgins

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Location
Realville, Penna.
Playing around with all the wonderful scans on Vintage Machinery renewed my interest in figuring out some of the numbers on my 2HL Vertical. The factory number is easy enough. This 3595 is #19 of 25 built in March 1942. In parenthesis in the description it says, "MIEHLE" as do a few different batches of 1HL-2HL Horizontals and Verticals elsewhere on the page. Is that to note a buyer that bought the whole run?

Additionally, attached is a photo of its DPC number and a tag beneath it that says, "Elizabethport", which I'm assuming is New Jersey and maybe a shipyard. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has something more definite to add.

20190509_083658[1].jpg
 
Manufacture of some machines was contracted out to others in the past... Miehle made 1h 2hl and westinghouse made 2h machines... Ohio Mike had a post related to this sometime back.. Ramsay 1:)
 
Ah ha, I didn't think to search the site for, "Miehle". Thank you for that lead. I'll give that a shot.

What precisely defines "war finish"? My mill is in very nice shape and has never been repainted. It's fairly slick. Was "war finish" just the bare casting painted or did that perhaps come along after March 1942 when things were really picking up?
 
Ah ha, I didn't think to search the site for, "Miehle". Thank you for that lead. I'll give that a shot.

What precisely defines "war finish"? My mill is in very nice shape and has never been repainted. It's fairly slick. Was "war finish" just the bare casting painted or did that perhaps come along after March 1942 when things were really picking up?

Pertains to "Fancy painting and finishing of metal working machines", see the link to read more. Keep in mind lots of machines produced after L-108 didn't conform. If a maker had hundreds of gallons of green they we're going to stop using it and order gray...

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...es-war-finish-labels-tags-282332/#post2258268
 
Ah ha, I didn't think to search the site for, "Miehle". Thank you for that lead. I'll give that a shot.

What precisely defines "war finish"? My mill is in very nice shape and has never been repainted. It's fairly slick. Was "war finish" just the bare casting painted or did that perhaps come along after March 1942 when things were really picking up?

WPB Limitation Order No. L-108
VICTORY
Official Weekly Bulletin Of The Agencies In The Office For Emergency Management
Washington, D.C.
May 5, 1942
Volume 3, Number 18

Fancy painting and finishing of metal-working machinery banned

Fancy painting and finishing of metalworking machinery by machine tool builders were to be banned after April 30, the WPB announced April 27. Limitation Order No. L-108, effective April 27, provides that only one coat of primer or sealer may be applied to new metal-working equipment. No filler may be applied and not more than two coats of paint, enamel, or lacquer may be used. Any color other than "old machine-tool gray" for the final coat of paint is prohibited. The order was Issued, the Board stated, to reduce the time required for delivery of machine tools and to free the space now used for finishing, for more productive work
 

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Well that explains that. Sounds like mine squeaked in just before the ban. Thanks for solving that mystery for me.

I wish I knew what shade of gray they are referring to.. I painted my 1943 2H plain with smoke gray from Rustoleum.. The same year model 2hl universal is a lighter shade of gray as it came from the Navy... Ramsay 1:)
 
I suspect my original paint machine would be the same gray they are referring to in the letter. It's probably darker than you'd expect, almost pushing the purple side of gray. Attached is an assortment of comparison shots in different lighting conditions. The shop lighting is harsh and if we get a clear sunny day with the room bright I can try again. The black is a control card to get a sense of what's what, the gray on the stir stick is the Rustoleum K7786 Smoke Gray you referenced. I happened to have some here. It's wet on the stick and would likely be a little darker once dry, but still several shades lighter than my machine. If you'd like I can dig through my color chip book and see if I can get you some kind of code to work with. Old codes can't always be translated into a modern product, but it's a good place to start.

20190511_201531.jpg20190511_201544.jpg20190511_201804_001.jpg20190511_201807.jpg20190511_201922.jpg
 
There was probably some variation over time, as well. As you pointed out with my 2HL, it was actually manufactured elsewhere and perhaps that affected things, too.

Take a look at this. It's impossible for me to say what we're seeing here, perhaps the owner will chime in, but in the first photos where the repaint is peeling it is revealing on the sides what looks like the dark gray color I showed above. Perhaps it is also an earlier repaint, too. Hard to say:

K&T 2D Makeover!
 
There was probably some variation over time, as well. As you pointed out with my 2HL, it was actually manufactured elsewhere and perhaps that affected things, too.

Take a look at this. It's impossible for me to say what we're seeing here, perhaps the owner will chime in, but in the first photos where the repaint is peeling it is revealing on the sides what looks like the dark gray color I showed above. Perhaps it is also an earlier repaint, too. Hard to say:

K&T 2D Makeover!

Yep that is a dark shade of gray alright.. I wonder if this one is a "war baby"? Ramsay 1:)
 








 
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