K&T CSM Mill Info

Hello to everyone in K&T Land. I am looking for some information on a K&T #3 CSM (30hp variety). I have perused a number of the old K&T Catalogs where I was able to find some general specs, but what I have not been able to find is "what is the real difference between the CSM mills and the other versions (CH, CK, etc). I know that the K's are heavier duty versions of their respective categories (ie. 2K is a heavier 2.....actually built on a 3 frame). I can't seem to find any info on the CSM's however. What sets them apart from the other mills? Yes they have MASSIVE motors in them, but is that the only difference? Table sizes, speeds & feeds, etc seem to be pretty much the same as the other mills in their respective categories (2-3-4 etc) but the only real thing I see different is the motor sizes.
If anyone can shed some light on these CSM's I would very much appreciate the insight. I currently have a 2HL and a 4CH vertical, but it sounds like I may have a 3CSM available to me very soon. Just trying to see where she fits in the K&T lineup. I have searched everywhere I can think of for info but the CSM's seem to be pretty elusive.

Thanks in advance to everyone.......

Heavier duty. CSM "may" refer to carbide surface milling or carbide steel machining

The term was applied to both knee and column and bed style production mills.

Seems many had the enclosed flywheel at back or upper end of spindle

I ran a #5 CSM vertical - it seemed to have no clutch. Your pushed the button and the spindle took off

The term was no longer in use on the knee and column mills in my '57 catalog - by then the TFs were out with their twin knee screws and up to 50HP

Some CSM parts pages here:

Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

Thanks for the info John. Every little bit helps. Also thanks for the link to VM. I had already been through all of those books, manuals, and catalogs, but I appreciate your thought on the matter anyway. Even in reading the CSM manuals I still haven't been able to find that "ah ha" description that says how they are digferent or better than any of the other series of K&T mills. I guess what I have been expecting to find is some type of line from a sales brochure that says something like...."New redesigned CSM series offers stronger motors, heavier this, faster that, etc". Maybe there isn't anything like that out there. Maybe they are simply one more line of mill that was pretty much like all of the others. I am fairly well educated about all of K&T's products (thanks in no small part to you and many others on this site), but the CSM line is a mystery. I'm just trying to fill in the gaps on my knowledge of K&T.

Thanks again John I really appreciate your help.....and all of the help you have provided to everyone over the years.
Matt

I know the csm's have a large flywheel built into the spindle that is supposed to help with heavy milling.

As I understand it, the CSM's have the same starting/stopping arrangement as my 5CK does.

Right on the input pulley there is a box looking thing, inside that box is a little arm on a one way clutch, when the motor is spinning the normal way it doesn't move. When you want to stop the machine, you hit the stop button. This sends the opposite polarity to motor so it starts to spin in the opposite direction decelerating the spindle.

As soon as the reversing motor overcomes the forward inertia of the spindle, flywheel (pretty sure these have flywheels) and gear train, that little one way clutch in the box looking thing catches and moves a contractor to cut the power.

Its apparently important to wire up the machine the right way or the first time you start it up you'll be in reverse and wreck all the delicate stuff inside the box looking thing.


12314911c_zpsbb2985f.jpg Photo by mebunting | Photobucket
You can see "the box looking thing" clearly in this picture, right on the end of the input pulley.

Not the best explanation, and I'm no expert, but you get the idea.

Thank you alskdjfhg for that info. Don't feel bad about your explanation.....it was perfectly clear to me. I am very fluent in "little box thingy" language, so I understood perfectly. Also thanks for the pics of your mill. I can clearly see the "box thingy", and you are correct about its operation. When the stop button is pressed it in effect reverses the motor momentarily to help stop everything. And yes you are correct about getting the motor wired up properly the first time. I have a phase rotation meter so everything will be double checked before I hit the start button the first time.
One last note.....Awesome mill you got there! She is a big 'ol girl !! I passed up a very similar one on GL about 2 years ago because she was in even worse looking shape than yours from being left outdoors for what looked to be the last quarter century. From the pics it looks like yours only has a bit of surface rust, and your pic of the cleaned up ways seems to verify that. I hope you have lots of fun getting her all cleaned up, and I would definitely be interested in seeing some after pics when you are done. I absolutely LOVE these old K&T mills, and can never get enough pics & war stories about reviving mills that some "darn fool idgit" left out for the scrap man to eventually melt down.

Thanks again for the CSM info!