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K & T Horizontal at Wheeler Machinery

Steve's Hobby

Cast Iron
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Location
Orange County, CA
Wheeler Machinery in Southern California: wheeler machinery.com

has this K & T on sale for $10,500. They say it is rebuilt-what ever that means,

I would not mind having one like it, what is your opinion on worth ?, obviously rebuilt would be nice, and I can understand 10 G's on a rebuild,

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It’s a cool $200 toy. When your done you take it to the metal muncher. You know they are idiots when they try to pull that crap.
 
They are harder to find parts for than your garden variety Bridgeport, and they lack a quill. But the definitely move a lot more metal.

In the right application's they are really handy. If you're looking for a starter machine though, it's probably not right for you.

I think the only guys who would shell out 10 grand for a FULLY rebuilt horizontal would be a big corporate shop with deep pockets. Most guys go for a well used machine and if they decide they want it rebuilt, they tackle it themselves and eat the cost of doing so for the joy of it (like restoring a classic car).
 
I've wondered how guys like Wheeler and Machinery Consultants in Salt Lake stay in business. There prices seem way too high for what they sell, but maybe someone is buying?

L7
 
Well they wouldn’t have to sell to many would they! I wonder what rebuilt means? Did a kid take it apart a put it back together?
 
Most guys go for a well used machine and if they decide they want it rebuilt, they tackle it themselves and eat the cost of doing so for the joy of it.

thanks M.B. thats the funniest thing I've herd in weeks,

"for the JOY of it" ...and I thought it was just pure masochism.. :D
 
Most guys go for a well used machine and if they decide they want it rebuilt, they tackle it themselves and eat the cost of doing so for the joy of it (like restoring a classic car).

I would much rather restore a K&T over any classic car ! they are much prettier :D
 
When I hear "rebuilt", I figure it was a Rust-O-leum overhaul. Used to be popular to give auction items a #2 diesel fuel paint job...................if it rained at the auction, the water on the ground would be iridescent
 
Looks to have been " re-built " with a 1" paint brush and maybe a quick run over with a " Biax " half moon scraper. Where they get these prices from I just don't know. Unless you have a specific job or jobs for them old horizontals are just hard work, they are not versatile enough for me. To be honest I'd rather have a decent quality " Bridgeport " for jobbing shop work.

Regards Tyrone.
 
I'm going to give a slightly different opinion. That machine has clearly been run for some time after its most recent paint job, so that's not whatever "rebuild" entails.

They are still asking way too much. If you have work for a manual horizonal with a plain (non-universal) table, you can get a #2 or #3 for $2500 or less, frequently with tooling or some attachments.
 
Really, if the machine is pristine, its not a bad price, most of what I have seen is pretty trashed. Watching a bid spotter auction today in San Bernadino on line-Cincinnati #3's with Vertical Attachments went for $300.00 & $700.00-A sliding head #3 when for $700.00. Apparently, the Wheeler Machine was rebuilt by Netal in Southern California, who I don't know. In any case with aa new Horizonatal say by Lagun pushing $30,000.00, consider. I have a Bridgeport & a K & T Swivel Head, so I will live with those and thanks to all the helpful feedback pull in the reins and save up for a new VMC. Kinda like the old stuff, but the new stuff with the controls is of course money well spent...5148d.jpg
 
Looks to have been " re-built " with a 1" paint brush and maybe a quick run over with a " Biax " half moon scraper. Where they get these prices from I just don't know. Unless you have a specific job or jobs for them old horizontals are just hard work, they are not versatile enough for me. To be honest I'd rather have a decent quality " Bridgeport " for jobbing shop work.

Regards Tyrone.

Fake scrape and a gallon of degreaser. About a year ago I had a look at a binns n berry for a customer. Poor thing had been subjected to a 'quick flake over' I suggested it was a daft thing to do and they had now lost the sale. A worn machine doesnt need any more metal removed randomly!
If I could only have one mill it would be a bridgeport type, preferably a tos.
Unless I machined big blocks of toolsteel for a living of coarse
 
Steve,
As many members have already pointed out, even a brand new machine without its specialized tooling is worth close to nothing.
Even assuming that this machine is indeed like new (I don't know that rebuilder and have no idea what kind of a job he does), does it come with all the arbor supports (inboard and outboard), at least a vertical head (with matching spindle adapter), etc.?
I'm not sure about your level of expertise and experience with "real machinery", not the hobby shop variety. But I would strongly discourage you from getting a machine like this, unless you have already some experience and mileage with a mill having a motor larger than 1HP.
Unless you have the need of removing a lot of material in a hurry in a production setting, a machine like this without much tooling is not going to be satisfactory, even if it is truly brand new.
As hinted by several members, you'd likely be much better off buying one with more wear, but fully accessoried from somewhere in the Rust Belt and having it shipped: the total cost would be less than this one and you'll have all the accessories you would need. Unless you need sub-thousand precision while removing cubic yards of material, by the shear mass of these monsters you will get a decent result even from one that hasn't been rebuilt, granted that all the gears and bearings are in decent shape.

Paolo
 








 
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