K & T Model 2D Collets
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  1. #1
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    Default K & T Model 2D Collets

    I have posted all the drawings for K & T Model 2D Rotary Head Milling Machine collets, both No. 20 and No. 30, on VintageMachinery.org | Welcome.

    Hardinge will make a set of No. 20 collets for approximately $2,200. Elaire Corporation will not make the collets at all. Still searching for other sources to make these hard-to-find collets.

    If anyone finds a source, please post results for all K & T Model 2D owner to reference.

    Thanks.

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    Galaxy products used to make K&T collets. I bought the last ones they had.
    Too bad about the Elaire corp, because they brag on their website about their ability to make custom collets? Wonder why they won't make these? They make other double angle collets? I have always thought hardinge made nice stuff but somewhat overpriced.

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    For those missing the 30 taper to 20 taper adapter a vender is also needed.
    Then the closer cap for the 30 and the cap for the 20 adapter.
    Its a shame such a great mill has this problem. Hopefully this thread gets progress going to a good solution.
    Cost is what will be hard to overcome.
    I guess a couple thousand in collets is ok if the buyer can recoup in jobs on the mill.

    I forgot the small closer cap for the 30 to 20 adapter

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    The No. 30 to No. 20 adapter drawing and the No. 30 spindle cap drawings are also posted on VintageMachinery.org | Welcome
    Unfortunately, due to the low volumes, these adapters and collets will be expensive.
    Keep searching for Vendors.....Eventually our persistence will pay off.
    Last edited by K&T_Journeyman79; 05-01-2018 at 06:31 AM. Reason: website was misspelled

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    Hopefully it is known there are also 30 collets and their retaining or "closing" cap

    Here is the link to where the drawings are

    http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/rss.aspx

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    Wow 22 hundred bucks for a set of collets? Sure glad my 2d uses R8 collets...R8 collets are almost like Detroit Diesel parts almost get them from gum machines...I had two of those K&T collets a few years ago in "Sutton" boxes.. I had a 1/2 and a 5/8 if memory serves me correctly.. I had no use for them so I sold them on Ebay.. Kinda wish I would have kept them now lol.. Hindsight is always 20/20 Cheers:Ramsay 1

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    Clarkson used to make an Autolock collet chuck for the 2D, which would offer a cheaper way of getting collets. Not sure if the Clarkson specials department could still make it.

    I still think the simpler solution is to use a 30 taper tool holder such as qc30 or INT 30 that can be flange fixed. Then the only task is to make the retaining nut. I've made my own, and have considered getting some CNC turned from my design if there is interest.

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    I guess I have to wonder why these collet companies won't make these collets? I understand the market is very small, but these collets are very simple compared to most other collets. Two angles, a center hole, and some slots. No threads, no keyways, no counterbores, no weird compound angles, odd sizes?

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    The number of individual pieces is part of the problem.
    I like Paulo's idea of the autolock chuck but I don't know what the drawbacks may be as well as others here. If there are drawbacks but there aren't a lot of choices.
    As far as finding someone to make them they know the mills still out there are most likely not running production so the owners are not likely big spender owners. Not to speak for others here but myself for one. I wouldt think some reading the forum are capable of doing the job. Or have connections.
    The picture of the Jacobs adaptor was a mistake. The last time I tried to remove a picture the whole post screwed up.
    dcp_0221.jpgdcp_0220.jpgdcp_0218.jpgimg_3901.jpgwww.jpg

    years back I bought a second mill to get tooling. Now Ill keep both until I know which is best abd if I sold one I would like tooling to sell with it. with tooling.

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    Positool Technologies, Inc., Brunswick, Ohio, can make a complete set of seven (7) No. 20 collets for $2,415. However, their workload is so strong that they cannot start the collets until December 2018. They would also use A-2 and harden them to 45 - 48 Rc. Need to group orders and take advantage of higher volume pricing. Wishful thinking.....

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    I see that Elaire is making the type Z and ZZ double angle collets for tree mills? It would be the same amount of work to make K&T collets? In fact they look like twins to ours? I don't have the specs on the typeZ collets.

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    I'll credit myself with the "yellow" photos

    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    The number of individual pieces is part of the problem.
    I like Paulo's idea of the autolock chuck but I don't know what the drawbacks may be as well as others here. If there are drawbacks but there aren't a lot of choices.
    As far as finding someone to make them they know the mills still out there are most likely not running production so the owners are not likely big spender owners. Not to speak for others here but myself for one. I wouldt think some reading the forum are capable of doing the job. Or have connections.
    The picture of the Jacobs adaptor was a mistake. The last time I tried to remove a picture the whole post screwed up.
    dcp_0221.jpgdcp_0220.jpgdcp_0218.jpgimg_3901.jpgwww.jpg

    years back I bought a second mill to get tooling. Now Ill keep both until I know which is best abd if I sold one I would like tooling to sell with it. with tooling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    I'll credit myself with the "yellow" photos
    Those are nice picture with the caption. I got those from photos on a bing photo search to I. D. the collet holder parts.
    I guess they originated here on PM. It shows how useful pictures posted here can be. John your captions inentifying the collet parts made them more usefull. Appreciated

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    I see that Elaire is making the type Z and ZZ double angle collets for tree mills? It would be the same amount of work to make K&T collets? In fact they look like twins to ours? I don't have the specs on the typeZ collets.
    I was also thinking that if there is a 30 taper collet already being made that fit the spindle it may be easier ti modify or make a cap to compress it.
    I'm not trying to detour the goal of Journeymans's thread. Just a thought.
    Maybe an existing available double angle collet could be reground to proper angle. It seems that may be less expensive.
    I do understand the angle could be correct but the section of the angle that's needed would also have to be correct. Like the problem you have with morse tapers. Sitting too deep on the taper or not deep enough.
    I have looked at other collets and that's the hard part to research.
    Last edited by mllud22; 05-06-2018 at 06:08 AM.

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    When I think of these collets, I cannot help but think about the vertical head drive gears which are always missing ...The 2d also has one of the earlier universal milling attachments which uses a drive gear which is usually missing.. I have one of these heads....Always a king's ransom to replace IF you are lucky enough to find some and the seller actually knows what he is selling... Cheers; Ramsay 1

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    I have that drive shaft for my Right angle attachment.. it has the 30 taper end with a short splined shaft. [one piece] I didn't know it was a separate part until it fell out one day when I picked up the head.
    I like KT but they sure made sure to lock in the market on their tool holders.
    I really would like to see a cure for this collet problem. Journeyman79 is doing his pricing getting collets made.
    Is there a chart that shows various collets with their tapers and dimensions. I have looked and get stalled trying to get measurements. I guess I could try to call the manufacturers.
    They don't give that information because its not needed. A 5c is a 5c

    A 5c collet goes from one inch sizes down to 1\16. On the 2D mill why do we need the 20 taper collets? Cant a 30 taper collet grip the smaller sized tool shanks?
    Simplify the dam thing.
    A different cap for a 30 taper that fits the bore.
    Collet chucks take up space but a adapter is needed.

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    There has been a few times I have wanted a 3/8" big collet which was never made by K&T? I also have looked for the various attachments K&T made but those have been real hard to find? I feel real lucky that my machines came with the collets and spindle pieces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    I have that drive shaft for my Right angle attachment.. it has the 30 taper end with a short splined shaft. [one piece] I didn't know it was a separate part until it fell out one day when I picked up the head.
    I like KT but they sure made sure to lock in the market on their tool holders.
    I really would like to see a cure for this collet problem. Journeyman79 is doing his pricing getting collets made.
    Is there a chart that shows various collets with their tapers and dimensions. I have looked and get stalled trying to get measurements. I guess I could try to call the manufacturers.
    They don't give that information because its not needed. A 5c is a 5c

    A 5c collet goes from one inch sizes down to 1\16. On the 2D mill why do we need the 20 taper collets? Cant a 30 taper collet grip the smaller sized tool shanks?
    Simplify the dam thing.
    A different cap for a 30 taper that fits the bore.
    Collet chucks take up space but a adapter is needed.
    The early universal milling attachment has a gear much like the drive gear for a horizontal machine only much smaller.. There is also and adjustment screw in the attachment itself to limit the depth the gear enters into the head to maintain proper backlash...I think the later universal head takes the splined shaft arrangement .. The early head also has different draw in collets.. I have the universal head with no drive gear and no collets and have had it for years.. Ramsay 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    There has been a few times I have wanted a 3/8" big collet which was never made by K&T? I also have looked for the various attachments K&T made but those have been real hard to find? I feel real lucky that my machines came with the collets and spindle pieces.
    Some 2d mills came with Bridgeport B3 spindle.. I was lucky enough to find a machine which had b3 opened up to R8 so tooling is no problem for me.. I don't particularly like R8 because to do any heavy milling you really should use an end mill holder to prevent creep and when you do that, you increase the distance from the end of the end mill to the spindle bearing which is never a good thing..As I mentioned before, I had two of the K&T collets one for 1/2 inch and one for 5/8 inch if memory serves.. I had no use for them so I sold them on ebay.. Kinda wish I had kept them now that I know how valuable they seem to be.. Ramsay 1


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