KT 2HL ,Need gear for vertical head
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    Default KT 2HL ,Need gear for vertical head

    Well after spending some time online the gear I need is hard to come by. Any and all help will go far in helping me find this. I just picked up this KT 2HL , serial # 21-8891 at a sale , and hope to run it using a VFD . But I need the gear to run the other head , so far I have found there are several different gears , depending on what head you have. Please look over pic's ,Last pic is what I believe the gears should look like , the factory gear bolted to the spindle with 4 bolts , and I think some people make them using a tool holder. I believe the gear in the head has 23 teeth , and a bearing support that screw's on over it , I removed it for the pic Thanks Daniel
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gear.jpg   gear3.jpg   head.jpg   kt-mill.jpg   gear1.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by unobtainum gear View Post
    Well after spending some time online the gear I need is hard to come by. Any and all help will go far in helping me find this. I just picked up this KT 2HL , serial # 21-8891 at a sale , and hope to run it using a VFD . But I need the gear to run the other head , so far I have found there are several different gears , depending on what head you have. Please look over pic's ,Last pic is what I believe the gears should look like , the factory gear bolted to the spindle with 4 bolts , and I think some people make them using a tool holder. I believe the gear in the head has 23 teeth , and a bearing support that screw's on over it , I removed it for the pic Thanks Daniel
    If you have zero, you need both gears, not just the one. Dual overarm and spindle CL relationship sets the shaft spacing that determine what fits and works, any given K&T.

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    Its a HELICAL gear - only one EXACTLY right will do. Making one requires a Universal mill (I.E. swiveling table) and dividing head geared to table screw - and of course the right change gears to get as close as possible to the correct LEAD required. Also tons of technicalities to assimilate and apply

    Chapter on the subject starts on page 291 in this useful 102 year old pub

    A treatise on milling and milling machines .. : Cincinnati Milling Machine Company : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    Maybe member Ramsay1 will chime in - he has done the deed

    Also WAThomas

    Helical Lead? 30T drive gear K&T

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    I have the same HD universal head for my 2CHL and drive gear that goes with it. If you’re going to make one, I can take some measurements for you. I’ll eventually have to make a drive gear for my high speed universal light.

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    If you have the std hi speed head which will move away from the drive bracket via splined shaft, then the head itself is mounted to the overarms.. In such case, you will need the drive gear as pictured on the right in your picture of two gears.. It is the gear with the spacer disc mounted to the front... This disc, contrary to what some think, is not there to make mounting and dismounting difficult.. This disc maintains proper backlash of the gear teeth... I made one for my 2h plain using my 2hl universal with low lead attachment along with model H dividing head.. Should be page 62 and 63 of this manual: Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints - Milling Heads and Parking Attachments - Parts Manual | VintageMachinery.org

    I think Pat Landy on Youtube has this same head on a 2hl....

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    Many thanks to all that have posted , but seems like the more I learn , the less I know. In the last post by ramsay1 he said something to the effect that the head may not clamp to the way's ? I am more confused. I do have a hail Mary , tomorrow , back to the place I got the machine from , to search for the gear, but I feel chances are slim .
    Thanks to all again
    I will keep you posted
    Thanks Daniel

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    Quote Originally Posted by unobtainum gear View Post
    Many thanks to all that have posted , but seems like the more I learn , the less I know. In the last post by ramsay1 he said something to the effect that the head may not clamp to the way's ? I am more confused. I do have a hail Mary , tomorrow , back to the place I got the machine from , to search for the gear, but I feel chances are slim .
    Thanks to all again
    I will keep you posted
    Thanks Daniel
    The heads - K&T had a whole tribe of them - could be mounted "close coupled", tight to the face at the spindle or moved-out along the twin over arms and driven by the splined shaft mentioned.

    Your one appears to have the edge castings that grip the top end of the vertical dovetails, so I'd presume close-coupled.

    My one was adapted to a USMT Quartet mill by adding a dovetailed plate around its spindle for those to grip. The Quartet has a dovetailed over arm, no place for the two holes that form the "ears" to go around the rods.

    Gear lash must be set by hand. No big deal - set to interference, back-off just a tad. it's all movable.

    Your one won't be movable, so you MUST have the properly mating set of gears.

    If it WERE movable, you could use most anything that fit into the space - even matching straight-cut spur gears instead of smoother and quieter helicals, then just move it 'til they had a proper running tooth-end clearance and no more than that.

    It will manage power better, live longer, and be less hassle to install and remove if you can find the OEM gears or have them duplicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unobtainum gear View Post
    Many thanks to all that have posted , but seems like the more I learn , the less I know. In the last post by ramsay1 he said something to the effect that the head may not clamp to the way's ? I am more confused. I do have a hail Mary , tomorrow , back to the place I got the machine from , to search for the gear, but I feel chances are slim .
    Thanks to all again
    I will keep you posted
    Thanks Daniel
    Look at the head.. It consists of the cutter head and the drive bracket.. The drive bracket clamps to the column of the mill... There is a swing bolt on the side of the drive bracket that you may unlatch to separate the cutter head from the drive bracket.. The cutter head attaches to both overarms and is supported by same.. The cutter head and the drive bracket are two units that is why the spacer washer is on the drive and driven gear that is to insure proper backlash of gear teeth...This unit differs from most of the heads in that it can move away from the column...When you look for the drive gear, look for one that is mounted to a spindle plug with a bolt with four slots on the head.. Should be 40 taper as in the spindle of the machine.. These drive by tangs machined into the gear itself therefore no drive attachment bolts are needed.. Good luck.. Ramsay 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by unobtainum gear View Post
    Many thanks to all that have posted , but seems like the more I learn , the less I know. In the last post by ramsay1 he said something to the effect that the head may not clamp to the way's ? I am more confused. I do have a hail Mary , tomorrow , back to the place I got the machine from , to search for the gear, but I feel chances are slim .
    Thanks to all again
    I will keep you posted
    Thanks Daniel
    Daniel,

    PM message sent.

    Bob

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    Default Head out WOW

    So , I see the head moves out , WOW. Also just wondering the are some quill stop looking adjusters , and in the top of the head it is splined , so it can travel ?? does the quill move too ? Like a bridge port , there is a square nub sticking out near the bottom of the head , shaft goes through the casting , it turns , but no quill movement.

    Many thanks to all , I need to open a go luck me account , then I would find that gear , LOL. Going now to the place to look for the gear , stub , wish me luck !

    Thanks Daniel
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails head-out.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by unobtainum gear View Post
    So , I see the head moves out , WOW. Also just wondering the are some quill stop looking adjusters , and in the top of the head it is splined , so it can travel ?? does the quill move too ? Like a bridge port , there is a square nub sticking out near the bottom of the head , shaft goes through the casting , it turns , but no quill movement.

    Many thanks to all , I need to open a go luck me account , then I would find that gear , LOL. Going now to the place to look for the gear , stub , wish me luck !

    Thanks Daniel
    This head did not have an advancing quill - no. Look down below the Birdport heads here:

    Tree, Halco and Kerney & Trecker (Dalrae) Attachments

    Before Birdports grew themselves an ass of their own, they were but one of several add-on heads for still-dominant horizontal mills.

    K&T house-branded Dalrea Midget mill and Speedmill heads, one with quill, the other not. Halco, Rusnok, and Tree also fit.

    K&T's OWN heads were categorically heavier beasts. ISTR K&T DID include an advancing quill in their lineup, but it would have been one of the rarest in the market.

    Folk who needed a K&T angle head were in the chip-making business, not in the artsy-fartsy MT and R8 rodent-nibbling game.

    Anything that could unduly move about on a mill, K&T tried to simply not HAVE. Floppy-sloppy was some other mill-maker's rice-bowl.

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    They were available with and without moveable quill.. My std hi speed head on my 2h plain is non moveable.. I think the travel of the quill on the moveable units is rather limited but I wish mine had a moveable quill...Ramsay 1

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2098/6064.pdf
    Last edited by ramsay1; 08-16-2018 at 01:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsay1 View Post
    They were available with and without moveable quill.. My std hi speed head on my 2h plain is non moveable.. I think the travel of the quill on the moveable units was rather limited but I wish mine had a moveable quill...Ramsay 1
    Limiting travel would help, but considering how large the movables have to be even to haul an R8 or B&S 9 reasonably well, I'd class anything of lesser size a probable source of more disappointment than joy.

    I'm glad my one does not move. I can't handle its mass without lifting gear as it is!


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    Thanks all ,
    Ramsay 1 knows this machine , he has nailed everything , from the head moving out , to the quill moving , Many thanks Ramsay 1.

    In the pic's you can see why I was thinking it moved , the square at the top left is coarse travel , the small square , where the quill lock is on a bridgeport is fine adjustment , I kept turning it colockwise , and in time it stopped.In one pic you can see the drive shaft .

    No luck finding the drive gear when I went back , but still bought more stuff !

    Any and all ideas on how I may find one of the gears would be a big help !

    Thanks to all for chiming in , what a great group !

    Thanks Daniel
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails headoverall.jpg   headtop1.jpg   head-out.jpg  

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    Better pic of the drive shaft.

    Anyone have the spec's I would need to have a gear cut ?

    Thanks again
    Daniel
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails drive.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    The heads - K&T had a whole tribe of them - could be mounted "close coupled", tight to the face at the spindle or moved-out along the twin over arms and driven by the splined shaft mentioned.

    Your one appears to have the edge castings that grip the top end of the vertical dovetails, so I'd presume close-coupled.

    My one was adapted to a USMT Quartet mill by adding a dovetailed plate around its spindle for those to grip. The Quartet has a dovetailed over arm, no place for the two holes that form the "ears" to go around the rods.

    Gear lash must be set by hand. No big deal - set to interference, back-off just a tad. it's all movable.

    Your one won't be movable, so you MUST have the properly mating set of gears.

    If it WERE movable, you could use most anything that fit into the space - even matching straight-cut spur gears instead of smoother and quieter helicals, then just move it 'til they had a proper running tooth-end clearance and no more than that.

    It will manage power better, live longer, and be less hassle to install and remove if you can find the OEM gears or have them duplicated.
    As Ramsay said, this is a high speed head. They have two parts, the head itself, as well as the drive bracket that bolts to the column. Both the regular head that only swivels, as well as the movable high speed, have areas that couple to the column. The gear backlash is maintained by the machined shoulder on the drive gear, it is not set by hand/guessed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unobtainum gear View Post
    Thanks all ,
    Ramsay 1 knows this machine , he has nailed everything , from the head moving out , to the quill moving , Many thanks Ramsay 1.

    In the pic's you can see why I was thinking it moved , the square at the top left is coarse travel , the small square , where the quill lock is on a bridgeport is fine adjustment , I kept turning it colockwise , and in time it stopped.In one pic you can see the drive shaft .

    No luck finding the drive gear when I went back , but still bought more stuff !

    Any and all ideas on how I may find one of the gears would be a big help !

    Thanks to all for chiming in , what a great group !

    Thanks Daniel
    Maybe I have missed the obvious, but so far I haven't seen EITHER of the TWO gears you need to drive it.

    - The one that mounts to a 40-taper to pick up power from the spindle,

    - The one that mates to it to deliver that power to the splined shaft, thence into the r/a gears inside the head's main body casting.

    if these cannot be tracked-down from tooth-count, part-number, on-gear markings, or a drawing cannot be found, then having at least one of them can enable the measurements needed to calculate its mate.

    Clarification, please.

    Do you have EITHER of the TWO gears needed?

    Or none at all?

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    Yes , gear in the head , Please look at first 2 pic's , 1st posting , 3 inches around and 23 teeth.
    Thanks !

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    Quote Originally Posted by unobtainum gear View Post
    Yes , gear in the head , Please look at first 2 pic's , 1st posting , 3 inches around and 23 teeth.
    Thanks !
    Progress, thanks. The confusion was your mentioning all those pics of OPG (Other People's Gears!)

    It is a decidedly "non-trivial exercise" to measure the shaft CL spacing, but it can be done.

    As previously noted, the head's casting imposes a fixed distance, over-arm bars to the CL of the shaft your present gear is on. There is a (different) fixed distance between those bars and the spindle CL.

    A gear mavin, given the resultant shaft spacing AND the "family tree" of the present gear, can calculate what the mate to it must be.

    As your spacing is not adjustable, there is only one "right answer".

    FWIW-not-much, I think you have a modest RPM step-up here. The gear for the 40-taper in the spindle probably has a larger diameter and higher tooth-count than the one you still have, even if only by one tooth. See "hunting tooth" for gear longevity and reduction of cyclical noise and resonance.

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    There is a disc on each gear that is machined to the pitch line, that is the same diameter as the pitch line of the teeth.. These two discs revolve together so as to prevent the gear mesh from being to tight...This in some cases can cause difficulty in installing and removing the unit from the machine... The procedure is to bring the overarms flush with the column then install the unit loosely.. Next insert the overarms in the cutter head.. If you do not observe this, the discs on the gears will not allow installation...Ramsay 1

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