Leblond Spindle Brake with VFD - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick302 View Post
    Ok, let me see if I got this straight...

    Ignoring any VFD wiring, I would wire 120VAC to the drum switch input, and the output (closed circuit when in middle position) would go to the brake, with the rectifier in line? So when the switch is in any other position, no power would be applied, and the brake would be free? Or do I have that backward, and the circuit would be open when the brake is applied, therefore powered while running, and dead when the switch is in the brake position?
    You have it backward. As with air-brakes, no power, the brake is locked.

    Makes it a PITA for hand-turning the spindle to change a D1-(x) chuck or measure a part, so you may want another switch to over-ride that - release the brake but NOT power-up the motor.

    Only if you want to have have "creep" or "jog" off the VFD, as larger lathes usually have, does it get more complicated where the VFD's controls must also be involved in actuation/release.

    I leave you to others who have done it on the LeBlond to keep it simple!


    .

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    You have it backward. As with air-brakes, no power, the brake is locked.

    Makes it a PITA for hand-turning the spindle to change a D1-(x) chuck or measure a part, so you may want another switch to over-ride that - release the brake but NOT power-up the motor.

    Only if you want to have have "creep" or "jog" off the VFD, as larger lathes usually have, does it get more complicated where the VFD's controls must also be involved in actuation/release.

    I leave you to others who have done it on the LeBlond to keep it simple!


    .
    L0 spindle so the brake actually helps in this case. Also, the drum switch itself has Fwd/N/Brake/N/Rev, so by default I would have a neutral position where the brake is off but the motor is not running.

    I don't foresee needing a jog via the VFD, but I can cross that bridge if and when I come to it.

    Thank you. I'll try to locate all the tags and verify the power specs etc to make sure this approach is Kosher, but seems easy and straightforward.

    Is it important that I remember to throw the switch to the brake position to cut power to it when I am done with the machine for any extended time period? If so, perhaps I should just wire up a master power switch for the VFD and brake.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick302 View Post
    L0 spindle so the brake actually helps in this case. Also, the drum switch itself has Fwd/N/Brake/N/Rev, so by default I would have a neutral position where the brake is off but the motor is not running.

    I don't foresee needing a jog via the VFD, but I can cross that bridge if and when I come to it.

    Thank you. I'll try to locate all the tags and verify the power specs etc to make sure this approach is Kosher, but seems easy and straightforward.

    Is it important that I remember to throw the switch to the brake position to cut power to it when I am done with the machine for any extended time period? If so, perhaps I should just wire up a master power switch for the VFD and brake.
    You've grokked the way the brake works, now.

    I don't have a Regal with all that stuff already THERE as only needs integration with a VFD.

    One, if not two, other posters DO have the experience, so - perhaps but a time-of-day thing before they chime in to help you sort it better.

    Or use PM's email feature to take up their earlier offer, directly.

    I'm wondering if the power for the brake is not also "already there", and what LeBlond used, if so?

    Otherwise, off to other priorities.

    Ciao,

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    The brake actuator is just an electromagnet that moves a plate. Springs apply the brake. The electromagnet releases it. Which sound bass-ackwards but is the reason it is "fail safe".

    As happens, 90 VDC is what results when 120 VAC line power is rectified. You need no transformer, regulator, or anything else "special" to produce it.

    Store-bought packaged PSU are plentiful. Money may be less-so.

    Lots of info is published, if DIY is on your dance-card. Here's but one example of many:

    Suppression circuits for clutches and brakes | Machine Design

    In the most bare-bones form, a packaged full-wave bridge rectifier at mebbe $3.00 to $6.00 is all the "power supply" you need. Spikes off coil inductance with a 90 VDC supply can hit close to 500 V, so I use 1000 PIV ones.

    DC likes to make arcs always, not just once in a while when the sine wave dice-roll hits it at the highest current. Supressor add-ons will extend life of rectifier and brake as well.

    Protecting the switch is easier. Put the ON/OFF switch on the 120 VAC input side. It will last much longer than if on the 90 DC output side.

    Also only an example for DIY as just about EVERYBODY has these:

    Skycraft - BRIDGE RECTIFIER 50A 1000V

    Heat-sink it to available metal or provide some metal for it.

    It will hum at 120 Hz when RUNNING the machine, be silent when stopped. Considering where it is, that probably won't bother you, if even it is to be heard much at all over all-else as is going on when running.

    The store-bought PSU?

    This may not be the correct one - you can look that up - just used as an example:

    Warner Electric Power Supply MCS-805-1 / MCS-805-2 - Warner Electric Parts

    Good as such things go, but more capability ("soft" braking, etc.) than you really need.

    Do some research before spending coin. Helluva range between five bucks and $300!
    You don’t have to buy anything. The original wiring should have a rectifier in it.

    That’s what I did with my machine. My machine is also wired so that if the brake is engaged, the VFD will not power the spindle until the brake is disengaged and the spindle motor control is turned to the stop position. So if the spindle motor control is on stop when the brake is engaged, I have to turn it to neutral, then back to stop.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtechgunman View Post
    You don’t have to buy anything. The original wiring should have a rectifier in it.
    Thanks!

    I had just twigged to that probability. Forgot it hadn't yet been altered at all!


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    Ok, here is how my machine is wired.

    In my leblond, the factory wiring panel, which is ultra heavy, simply unbolts out of the electrical box. After reviewing the wiring diagram, I determined that I could remove that entire panel. If you can do the same, take care to not just cut wires, but unscrew and remove them properly. All of my wires were numbered and they corresponded to the Leblond wiring diagram that they provided me.



    Here is the picture of the actual wiring:


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    Here you can see the Emergency stop button & potentiometer.

    I used factory wiring exit holes and bent conduit to mount the boxes.


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    My lathe also has an L type spindle nose. So to change chucks, I put the machine in low gear & engage the brake.

    If I hit the e-stop button while the machine is running, the S1/PC kills power to the spindle motor while the other side of the e stop switch energizes the brake. So the spindle motor won't interfere with the e brake.

    Once the brake has been engaged, in order to re-start the late, my VFD is set to where the factory spindle control must be returned to "Stop" position after the emergency stop button has been turned & therefore reset.

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    We'd best not answer you here, without prints to know exactly what you got. be careful of accepting too much detail over the internet.

    Keep in mind the brake is already wired correctly with the correct power supply. You just need to find where to put the 110 hot wire and the neutral return. I suggest you get this running and test it separately before connecting your VFD.

    Biggest chance for a F&*% UP is accidently putting power to the forward revers contacts for the VFD if you are using what is already on the lathe.

    karl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl_T View Post
    We'd best not answer you here, without prints to know exactly what you got. be careful of accepting too much detail over the internet.

    Keep in mind the brake is already wired correctly with a the correct power supply. You just need to find where to put the 110 hot wire.

    Biggest chance for a F&*% UP is accidently putting power to the forward revers contacts for the VFD if you are using what is already on the lathe.

    karl
    Karl is correct. Don’t assume my wiring will work on your machine. You need to call Leblond with SN & get a manual which should have the wiring diagram.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #31
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    Minor nit, but arrow to the Selenium (or so that type usually are) bridge rectifier says "factory resistor" where it should say "factory rectifier".

    Drawing is correct as-had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Minor nit, but arrow to the Selenium (or so that type usually are) bridge rectifier says "factory resistor" where it should say "factory rectifier".

    Drawing is correct as-had.
    Whoops, yes this is my mistake. Thank you

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    There seems to be a little confusion about your brake,if it is original it is not a fail safe brake,it only brakes when power is applied.Power is applied when the fwd/rev start lever is in the neutral/stop position.
    There are some weak retracting springs that move the plate away from the magnet when power is off.Check them since you are still setting it up.

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    Just an update for anyone following, or any future googlers - I got the brake wired and working properly. The VFD power input is 220v. I wired the same circuit to the brake, and left the original brake switch wiring on the drum switch. Overall very simple to do, once I figured out how it was wired and operated. As a bonus, I have the VFD on a switch for when I am not using the lathe, so this also cuts power to the brake, so it doesn't stay energized while not in use.

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    Got any pictures of what you ended up doing? I've got a similar vintage Leblond and pulled the drum switch off completely and installed a new switch panel on the front to control the VFD and the brake. I've got the brake run off a separate DC power supply. Now I'm debating switching from a VFD to a RPC as I need more power which would probably mean I'd have to go back to the original way it was setup.


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