Lodge and Shipley 1610 powerturn

Looking at a 1970 L&S 1610 powerturn

Anything specific I should look for/at besides the normal things. Looks complete, probably will need a bit of love, will have to tool it up, but that is a given.

Seems these were well regarded lathes.
This one is a 20hp and 78" between centers.
Only thing I believe I would have to track down is a steady rest, hopefully not too difficult.

I was looking for a smaller lathe to go with my hendey, but I can't really turn down more capacity for what I believe is a steal.

Any help is appreciated.

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Mr.Green said:

Seems these were well regarded lathes.

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"Persecuted" might be more accurate.

Millions of pounds of alloy steel has sacrificed its shape and form trying to beat Large & Shapely lathes clear to death.

And failed in the attempt.

A Powerturn IS their "smaller lathe".

See Omniturn and Superturn.

Lodge & Shipley Superturn 3220W 32" x 252"/120" Center Drive Hollow Spindle - Lathes Oil Field & Hollow Spindle Ref# 24050 - (i) - Prestige Equipment

I have one. These are one of the best made lathes ever made. They are getting very hard to find and they are worth every dime they cost. Buy it first, then send pictures. Don't let it get away. You will need 8" of reinforced concrete as a bed. They are heavy, about 12,000 lbs.

I had one for 25 yrs, mine was a 1610 copymatic.
Run the machine in the 2 highest gears, if you don't like the way it sounds, find another machine.....

thermite said:

"Persecuted" might be more accurate.

Millions of pounds of alloy steel has sacrificed its shape and form trying to beat Large & Shapely lathes clear to death.

And failed in the attempt.

A Powerturn IS their "smaller lathe".

See Omniturn and Superturn.

Lodge & Shipley Superturn 3220W 32" x 252"/120" Center Drive Hollow Spindle - Lathes Oil Field & Hollow Spindle Ref# 24050 - (i) - Prestige Equipment

Click to expand...

I did notice that they were the smallest of their larger lathes, but I don't think I would need any larger (unless I need to machine large BS wheels) but I also thought my 14x54 would be large enough. Lol.



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steve-l said:

I have one. These are one of the best made lathes ever made. They are getting very hard to find and they are worth every dime they cost. Buy it first, then send pictures. Don't let it get away. You will need 8" of reinforced concrete as a bed. They are heavy, about 12,000 lbs.

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From what I found, it looked like it was right around the 10k pound mark, even 12k isn't anything I can't move.

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Mr.Green said:

I did notice that they were the smallest of their larger lathes, but I don't think I would need any larger (unless I need to machine large BS wheels) but I also thought my 14x54 would be large enough. Lol.

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As "FNG", least seniority, I was initially exiled to the "runt" on Galis' line. A 20" or so Cincinatti - newest under-roof - but that all the other hands HATED.

It had but an 8-foot bed, and only 5 HP.

Several L&S, 10 and 12 foot beds, around 30 inchers, Model X ... or its predecessor.. were beloved. "Gravy" we called being lucky that shift to get put onto an L&S.

The rest, y'see were War One era "Niles". Three of 'em 50-inchers. Mining machines and railway equipment were our rice-bowl, back when "Cheap Chinese Labour" was still in Appalachia, USA.

If the Niles habit had not been to put handwheel rims as fat as a chubby gal's calves onto those heavy old soft-bed, worn bed, dinosaurs, ye'd not have been able to move 'em by sweaty, wore-out, crampy-muscles, greasy-handed shift end!

L&S was a delight by comparison. HELPED yah rather than FOUGHT yah. Came off-shift having hit spec easier, and not being beat half to death gittin' there, faster.

And the NEWEST one had been born prior to War Two! Powerturn is nicer, yet!
Also prolly not as badly worn off the back of a major war effort.

We loved 'em, one and all!

Even so, it was the 8-foot "American" radial drillpress I considered marrying.

There's some things a lathe is just too prudish to DO!

If you can't find DIRECTLY applicable pubs, Model X is generally the same, just in rather stodgy workaday clothes the sales department opined

Basically - like Model X - The Powerturn came in two "ranges" 14 thru light 20" "small" (if one can refer to any 20 HP lathe as "small") and then great heavy beasts that really never took any prisoners - usually with much less spindle speed on tap

L&S designation of PT was 2X

Here is the 20" light Model X in late forties while it still sported hardened and ground "box" ways - a machine made from the 14 / 16"

My 1610 Powerturn copymatic weight right at 10000 with 60" centers. Back in the late 80s, the replaceable steel ways were $11000 each. The one warning I had heard about from a machine tool dealer was, a bad clutch can be a problem.
I never hear anyone comment on the machines top speeds, for example my machine had a top speed of 2000rpms, myself and another who had the same model, thought the 2000rpms top speed was more of a sales gimmick then something usable, I haven't seen one of these not make a racket in the two highest speeds.
I used the machine for hydraulics, and made bank with it, it was a easy to use heavy mid size lathe. The machine has pick off end gears, I had the metric conversion set, it was not too bad to change those over, but took an hour.
Of coarse doing hydraulic cylinders, I was thread cutting with the machine every day, inside/out side, the ball stop made things really nice, and helped keep up a good clip.
Good luck with your machine!

Weak clutch and real noisy gear box, but a good machine...Phil

Phil in Montana said:

Weak clutch and real noisy gear box, but a good machine...Phil

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My hendey is a bit noisy when you get to the highest two speeds as well.

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Phil in Montana said:

Weak clutch and real noisy gear box, but a good machine...Phil

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I am trying to be nice, would I buy another one, No! Just my opinion from experience, the heavy style Pacemaker is in my "opinion" a one hell of a lot better machine!
The big factor is condition, I would buy one that is in excellent condition only. On the good side, the machine in the lower gears can remove an inch off a diameter per pass, very impressive with 4140.
I don't think there was a copy system better then the copymatic, its integral to the machine but can be overoad at any time. When the stylus encounters a shoulder on the template, the machines brake engages, the tool feeds out creating the shoulder, then the feed moves on.

I would buy another one if I had need... and could not find a Monarch or Pacemaker.. I have 3 type X and one power-turn..I hate the noise ..but they do the job and are not hard to run and the price,s was right at the time all 4 are in the 24/36 inch range. I like the taper and the f/r clutch...Phil

donie said:

I am trying to be nice, would I buy another one, No! Just my opinion from experience, the heavy style Pacemaker is in my "opinion" a one hell of a lot better machine!
The big factor is condition, I would buy one that is in excellent condition only. On the good side, the machine in the lower gears can remove an inch off a diameter per pass, very impressive with 4140.
I don't think there was a copy system better then the copymatic, its integral to the machine but can be overoad at any time. When the stylus encounters a shoulder on the template, the machines brake engages, the tool feeds out creating the shoulder, then the feed moves on.

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Honestly, I would prefer a larger through hole on the spindle, but it almost seems I have to look at bigger machines than I really need.

It will be primarily used for repairing equipment I am working on. I would love to be able to chuck up a 36" BS wheel if needed, but again that's a really big lathe.

But I also know that when the opportunity presents itself, you can't go wrong paying a bit more than weight for something, because someone had bigger eyes than they do shop or forklift.

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A bit of a dilemma for myself also, I am looking for another similar machine, the options for larger spindle holes tends to point toward the better imports like Webb, or other Mori clones.
I am looking at Axelson, and Americans, there are some nice machines out there, right now I am just a buzzard waiting on a fence.

If you are looking at that 1970 cream white one in Indiana on Facebook etc, it does have some desirable features such as apron-reverse-to-leadscrew, and I think a two-speed tailstock for gearing down large drills. It also has the taper attachment, it looks like the bed clamp needs to be reconnected, but it seems to be all there. I think he has it listed for $1500 which is, imo, a hell of a deal.

I tried to get him to bring it up to me for a trade for a smaller lathe and cash on top of that, but he didn’t want to do the long drive. It is a bit of a drive tbh.

Edit: obviously, condition is king, but I was willing to risk it because I could use it for parts in worst case

Mr.Green said:

Honestly, I would prefer a larger through hole on the spindle, but it almost seems I have to look at bigger machines than I really need.

It will be primarily used for repairing equipment I am working on. I would love to be able to chuck up a 36" BS wheel if needed, but again that's a really big lathe.

But I also know that when the opportunity presents itself, you can't go wrong paying a bit more than weight for something, because someone had bigger eyes than they do shop or forklift.

Click to expand...

Oll patch is in a WORLD of hurt just now. Might be some big-hole goods coming on the market?

For big wheels? Overly large lathe seems a waste of floorspace, given the surviving Old Iron big boys yah can actually find - let alone afford to transport - are seldom "Tee".... nor even short bed.

Baby-size VTL/VBM do yah better?

Could was a decent horizontal mill - even a fair ignorant one - can swing that diameter as well if yah don't need to do that all day, every day. Lot of those going cheap as can become first-cousin to a Tee lathe with not all that much money, sweat, nor ingenuity invested.

2CW

thermite said:

Oll patch is in a WORLD of hurt just now. Might be some big-hole goods coming on the market?

For big wheels? Overly large lathe seems a waste of floorspace, given the surviving Oldiron big boys seldom are Tee.... nor even short bed.

Baby-size VTL/VBM do yah better?

Could was a decent horizontal boring mill can swing that diameter as well if yah don't need to do that all day, every day.

2CW

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I have considered those options as well, a VTL would fit the bill.

The more of this work I can keep in house, the quicker stuff gets done for my customers.

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Mr.Green said:

The more of this work I can keep in house, the quicker stuff gets done for my customers.

Click to expand...

Well. I just "play" in me dotage. I don't really have any compelling reason to "make chips" at all, these days.

So I have a coupla machines that are interesting - challenging, even - but WEIRD.. that I'd be WRONG to "recommend" to a brother who DID have to make chips.

The "Quartet" combo mill and its comical Rube-Golberg ways at the head of the list.

Looks as if they owned stock in Gilmer for all the synchronous belts they used that aren't needed for synchronizing a damned thing.

Trust me. You do NOT "want one"! Too much of a pain in the anatomy to mess with if yah have deadlines to hit.

OTOH? The CONCEPT is good, and they were not the inventor OF it by 70 or 80 years to begin with.

Any of SEVERAL very sound and solid horizontals, better yet, FACTORY combos or "universals" - not just grafted-on BirdPort heads - can surely earn their floorspace and 3-P power budget.

It doesn't CEASE with what was shipped, y'see. Even though the Quartet already had both horizontal and vertical milling - separate motors and all - "as built"?

A prior owner adapted a K&T 7" or so slotter to my Quartet.

Same Prior owner adapted a K&T all-angle head in 40-taper to my Quartet.

John Oder has posted using one of his horizontal mills for large diameter turning, as if it was a Tee lathe. I can do much the same, other members have done that as well, and "long since". Not a lot of rocket insemination to it.

There are several other members who have done FAR more-yet! See also Deckel & Sputniks for wierd and wonderful mills that do the odd stuff rather well.

"It's PM", after all.

"Right sized" lathe. More clever use of a horizontal, combo, or "Universal" mill?

Could save yah some serious coin. Significant floorspace.

And a great deal of TIME.

thermite said:

Oll patch is in a WORLD of hurt just now. Might be some big-hole goods coming on the market?

.............................................................

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That's what you think. Most of the shops that have Lehmann Hollow Spindle lathes in them own those lathes and most have paid for the buildings they set in. Plus they are in the repair and onesy and twosy making of connections and such. Believe me, they will close the doors until the oil field turns around and reopen for business. Those that did not invest wisely will loose their stuff. The manufacturing sector of the oil field business, will sell off excess equipment. The Hollow spindle lathes are the last items that go for sale, or if it is clapped out. Believe me, the big guys like National Oilwell, Schlumberger, BakerHughes, They play musical chairs with their machines until they have a pile of junk iron tha nobody wants among company division, ready for the auction block. Usually the scrapper!!!

I know of a small shop out in Odessa, Texas that has a 1978 model LeBlond CNC hollow spindle lathe bought new. Fifteen years ago when i saw it, it only had about 5,000 hours on it. Most of that was idle time. And I'm sure it's still there and probably not used much since then. I know of a Axelson Hollow spindle lathe in Mississippi that came out of the R & D lab of Humble Oil & Refining in Houston. Still a few crown jewels left out there if you know where to look.

Ken