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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Yeah, I wish I had good floors.



    According to this:
    Lodge & Shipley Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints - AVS-Answer Lathe Brochure | VintageMachinery.org

    The weight is 7150 dry weight.
    I figure a couple hundred extra in tooling and misc.
    I have the first-generation HBX-360-BC with the cast, not weldment base. At less than HALF (just) your 7XXX - approx 3300 avoir? It calls for SIXTEEN inches of 'crete.

    It hasn't gotten it it.

    And will not!

    My slab is only even in the 5" to 6" range and superb condition around 35 years in because the prior owner who added the annex was a paving company VP!

    OTOH, it is ALWAYS the subgrade that does the work, anyway. I have it,and first-class work from the sample where I had to expose part of it.

    Evidence is you do not have anyhting even close to that fortunate combination.

    Steel plate, grouted, will be easier than demo and re-do!

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  3. #42
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    I'd be curious if you get a full manual with schematics, like you can with a Monarch when ordering through Monarch, since L & S is a part of Monarch now.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I'd be curious if you get a full manual with schematics, like you can with a Monarch when ordering through Monarch, since L & S is a part of Monarch now.
    Yes, you can.
    I already ordered and received my manuals from them, including the parts section with breakout diagrams.

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Yes, you can.
    I already ordered and received my manuals from them, including the parts section with breakout diagrams.
    Good news!

    How would you rate the coverage of the motor, drive, and controls section?

  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Good news!

    How would you rate the coverage of the motor, drive, and controls section?
    Unfortunately, it doesnít include the electrical. Just mechanical parts breakouts.
    Iím going to call them to see what I can get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Unfortunately, it doesn’t include the electrical. Just mechanical parts breakouts.
    I’m going to call them to see what I can get.
    I'd be up for a bit of coin to have BOTH the first-gen DC Drive AVS and the second gen AC + inverter/VFD for my collection. They were not done "casually", so there would be things to learn as to what they chose and did with it.

    Also useful guidance as to what has to be accomplished with substitutes.

    Lemme know what to order if/as/when you get more info.

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Unfortunately, it doesnít include the electrical. Just mechanical parts breakouts.
    Iím going to call them to see what I can get.
    Quick, easy call to Monarch Lathes and they are going to dig up and send me what they have for the L&S AVS and the Monarch 10EE for my serial numbers

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    Vintage Machinery is pretty thin with the AVS as well. Be really cool to see your name on a submission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Vintage Machinery is pretty thin with the AVS as well. Be really cool to see your name on a submission.
    LOL!

    No need. I have my own websites. They just aren't currently leaving my LAN!

    Fewer silly arguments when they only have to accomodate ONE fool instead of legions of 'em!



    Keith has done the right thing. Good on 'im!

    His site is akin to the "rare book room" in a public library.

    Not a venue for bun-fights and adverhooring!

  12. #50
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    Delivery day!

    My rigger is having trouble reaching the pedalsÖ




    15.5K lift with 8 foot forks.

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  14. #51
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    There sure are a lot of useless replies to sort through in this thread.

    As for your questions-

    The broken concrete will probably be fine. If it weren't already cracked the forklift might crack it.

    No, you cannot run skates across normal plywood.

    Thin sheetmetal works well. If I have to run skates over bad stuff I have a couple 4ft strips of 10g 304 I use a lot. Even 16 gauge would be fine if there's concrete underneath.

    Maybe it's just the picture, but the heels of those long forks look a bit thin for a 15k machine.

    If the forks will do it, that lift will probably pick your lathe about 4' out from the mast. You should be able to set it on the concrete inside that way.

    I would try rigging the lathe picking it from the tailstock end and see how it lifts. with how tight your driveway and garage is there it would be nice if you could drive it straight in and set down.

    I have picked a 13k lb longbed Mazak CNC lathe from the tailstock end with a 20K Hyster and very heavy 16' fork extensions.

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  16. #52
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    Both the Lodge & Shipley AVS and the Monarch 10EE are safely in the garage.

    The 10EE was a pretty easy move with forklift slinging and then skating.

    I slung the Lodge & Shipley as per the manual and it worked fine, but my heart certainly was beating quickly when I first picked it up off the truck and watched it lean a bit.
    Got it off and down low and back on blocking. Once I had it high up on the driveway on less cracked concrete, I put a pair of skates under the headstock end and then I slung the last bed rib towards the tailstock and used the forklift and sling as the 3rd point.
    Sideshift was a nice, controlled way of skating it, along with slowly backing up the forklift to change the entry angle of the lathe (headstock first). I fastidiously checked the headstock skates after each pick/move and they only needed a few heading tweaks.

    Iím trying to figure out the best way to get the headstock skates out now. I have a toe jack someone lent me, but the AVS has a lot of sheetmetal that prevents me from getting a jack in there.
    I think Iíll try a car low profile floor jack.

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  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Both the Lodge & Shipley AVS and the Monarch 10EE are safely in the garage.

    The 10EE was a pretty easy move with forklift slinging and then skating.

    I slung the Lodge & Shipley as per the manual and it worked fine, but my heart certainly was beating quickly when I first picked it up off the truck and watched it lean a bit.
    Got it off and down low and back on blocking. Once I had it high up on the driveway on less cracked concrete, I put a pair of skates under the headstock end and then I slung the last bed rib towards the tailstock and used the forklift and sling as the 3rd point.
    Sideshift was a nice, controlled way of skating it, along with slowly backing up the forklift to change the entry angle of the lathe (headstock first). I fastidiously checked the headstock skates after each pick/move and they only needed a few heading tweaks.

    I’m trying to figure out the best way to get the headstock skates out now. I have a toe jack someone lent me, but the AVS has a lot of sheetmetal that prevents me from getting a jack in there.
    I think I’ll try a car low profile floor jack.
    Sheet metal is USUALLY detachable without need of explosives?

    If you have it where you WANT it, FIRST arrange your supports.

    Plaan aheaddddd.

    Go by the local dry-ice plant. With a coupla BIG (but dirt CHEAP!) styrofoam camper coolers.

    Place wide sheets of dry ice under it with the trolley jack.

    You need only enough thickness of dry ice such that when it is "all gone", your shim stack will no longer be under any load at all and can be extracted without use of pry bars or jacks.

    Load the stack.

    Pull the jack, EXPEDITIOUSLY.

    As in do NOT dawdle or screw about!

    Fire up a floor fan so the subliming CO2 doesn't waste you.

    And watch it lower itself to the supports in mere minutes if even a full minute, soon as the CO2 takes a load.

    Low to the deck, it won't tumble even if the descent is a tad uneven.

    Pull the shims and aside, safely. You will need them again when the 120 inch Craven Brothers lathe arrives.

    Zero mess to clean up. "Dry" ice is exactly what it says it is. Dry.

    Old Skewl version uses boxed sand. Same principle. Only enough so the OTHER supports take the load and there is clearance left to pull the gadgetry out, no longer loaded. See ancient Egypt. Or Sumer. Or older civilizations. Before mankind got "woke" AKA suicidally stoopid.

    Or you can spend the better part of the day mucking about with a PAIR of 5,000 lb Vestil pry dolly, stacks of shims, railroad pry bar with heel, and a PAIR of 5 Ton toe jacks.

    I kept the toe jacks, the several pry bars, and a lidded box of shims.

    I'm gone too old and scrawny to even position long-handled 5,000 lbs glorified steel Johnson bars, so gave those to a younger, taller, heavier-muscled acquaintance!

    More than ONE way to kerb an appetite for scarfing up Old Iron!

    More's the pity... somewhere a fine old Niles or Craven will escape..


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  20. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Sheet metal is USUALLY detachable without need of explosives?
    Agreed. Iím sure I could remove the sheetmetal and get to the good stuff, but it does look like quite a bit of effort to do so.

    And thereís this dent in the sheetmetal I immediately noticed as it arrived on the truck (bottom left):



    Chain binder?
    Forklift damage?



    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    If you have it where you WANT it, FIRST arrange your supports.

    Plaan aheaddddd.

    Go by the local dry-ice plant. With a coupla BIG (but dirt CHEAP!) styrofoam camper coolers.

    Place wide sheets of dry ice under it with the trolley jack.

    You need only enough thickness of dry ice such that when it is "all gone", your shim stack will no longer be under any load at all and can be extracted without use of pry bars or jacks.

    Load the stack.

    Pull the jack, EXPEDITIOUSLY.

    As in do NOT dawdle or screw about!

    Fire up a floor fan so the subliming CO2 doesn't waste you.

    And watch it lower itself to the supports in mere minutes if even a full minute, soon as the CO2 takes a load.

    Low to the deck, it won't tumble even if the descent is a tad uneven.
    Oooooooh! I like that!!
    Thatís a very cool idea! (bad pun intended!).
    Thanks!!
    It just so happens that we have a LOT of dry ice at my work.
    But wonít my poor lathe and floor catch a cold and need a blanket?!??

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Pull the shims and aside, safely. You will need them again when the 120 inch Craven Brothers lathe arrives.
    LOL!
    Is admitting to my addiction an important step?!??

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Zero mess to clean up. "Dry" ice is exactly what it says it is. Dry.

    Or you can spend the better part of the day mucking about with a PAIR of 5,000 lb Vestil pry dolly, stacks of shims, railroad pry bar with heel, and a PAIR of 5 Ton toe jacks.

    I kept the toe jacks, the several pry bars, and a lidded box of shims.

    I'm gone too old and scrawny to even position long-handled 5,000 lbs glorified steel Johnson bars, so gave those to a younger, taller, heavier-muscled acquaintance!

    More than ONE way to kerb an appetite for scarfing up Old Iron!

    More's the pity... somewhere a fine old Niles or Craven will escape..


    :-)
    Let me know when you spot one and Iíll lend my meager muscles to help move it!

    Iíve long had pry bars and lots of cribbing/shims, but Iíve decided that a decent set of skates will be a useful thing to have around, so keeping my eyes peeled.

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  22. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Agreed. I’m sure I could remove the sheetmetal and get to the good stuff, but it does look like quite a bit of effort to do so.

    And there’s this dent in the sheetmetal I immediately noticed as it arrived on the truck (bottom left):



    Chain binder?
    Forklift damage?





    Oooooooh! I like that!!
    That’s a very cool idea! (bad pun intended!).
    Thanks!!
    It just so happens that we have a LOT of dry ice at my work.
    But won’t my poor lathe and floor catch a cold and need a blanket?!??



    LOL!
    Is admitting to my addiction an important step?!??




    :-)
    Let me know when you spot one and I’ll lend my meager muscles to help move it!

    I’ve long had pry bars and lots of cribbing/shims, but I’ve decided that a decent set of skates will be a useful thing to have around, so keeping my eyes peeled.
    Skates:

    I'm too lazy to go and COUNT mine but here's what works well enough, and has for long enough I have "many".

    El Cheapo, 'coz you aren't going to do this five days a week for the next forty years:

    - Vestil machinery skates. Vestil have a total disaster of a web page, but their products are OK. Find them on a dealer/distributor's site who has a web page that actually works. Big Box. Amazon, even. eBay often has Vestil goods, used. Some from folks who only ever did one rig or two with it. CAVEAT: Optimists, some are. Brand-new can be cheaper!

    - Northern Tool (Chinese, But unlike Horror-Fright, the stuff good enough the Chnese use it themselves, too! Not just export it and laugh their collective asses off at the fools who buy the junk China will NOT buy, domestically).

    -- These have built-in pins and links for ganging:

    4400 lbs skate| Northern Tool + Equipment

    I have used as many a DOZEN at a go to link-up a long and wide "magic carpet" to traverse summer-soft bad asphalt with a 5205 lb mill. I shipped a pair ahead of me to Adam Booth (Abom79) before flying into Pensacola to take home said mill (a USMT "Quartet" H&V combo). Adam liked them well-enough to buy more.

    -- These others are at their best on superior quality slabs. Which I happen to be blessed with. ELSE steel plate or channel as rails.

    3300 lbs skate | Northern Tool + Equipment

    Drill a bolt hole in the center of the channel. It SHOULD have shipped that way as the softer roller ones (above) do.

    I have LOT of these, probably a dozen? Including three semi-permanenlty attached to one of the 10EE I've been moving about often.

    Disclosure: Northern has a membership program for extra discounts I don't much care about, ANNNND free shipping which I DO veruy much care about!

    My collection was built cheaply by taking advantage of that PLUS they used to put these particular ones on deep discount and/or two-for-one priced sale about twice a year. You snooze, you lose on those deals.



    Ganging capability is important to spread the load. Have a look at B-36, B-52, hard runway only or C17 or C-130 dirt runway capable landing gear.

    A 30 ton skate is useless on a three ton capable surface unless you wanted to make a skate-shaped hole!



    So is securing a skate to the load crucially important!

    Gravity is only reliable in the vertical plane. Friction only traps a skate when gravity actually brings the load, skate, and deck under LOAD.

    Unload a(ny) given skate off the"bridging" effect due to a minor surface deviation?

    The truant free-range idiot will be seen rolling merrily across the carpark and off to go play in traffic!

    The LOAD will soon TIP towards where that skate USED TO BE as you clear the surface deviation!

    Best to learn this on the screen. Not on your knees.

    Affix your skates with something more reliable than wishful thinking, even if only wire that keeps them "close-to" where the load can find them still THERE when regular programming resumes, other side of the dip in the deck!

    I like bolts, FWIW,

    YThese are not "Big Brand?"

    BFD. They JFW.

    You want "Big Brand"? Germany has MHE that make Hilman look barefoot-poor.

    Or he who has to pay the prices of it LITERALLY barefoot-poor".



    Dents?:

    Damn. brand-new machine like that? Just off the production line? I'd be all-over Lodge & Shipley.. Oh... wait..

    Pity the poor German Old Iron collector ... and a lathe that was bombed and strafed, if not also fire-bombed! Then dragged back from Eastern RUSSIA!



    Sheet metal is GOING to have to come off as you clean, inspect, and prepare put the machine tool into usable condition for YOUR available power ANYWAY.

    Never mind how it became dented, the way it becomes UNdented is classical sheet metal / auto-body work. And dirt simple since it is NOT a Ferrari.

    "Thor" brand Copper and rawhide mallet.

    Buy 'em outta the UK unless you can find one even HALF as good, US-made.

    Cheap plastic "deadblow" can work. I'm just spoilt rotten for better tools.



    Dent can soon be made good as new if you care enough. Old glossy magazines can sub for costly leather buffers if you want to preserve the paint. Many leaves of clay-coated paper slide over each other, thin car-wash ersatz (fake) "chamois" at the surface, hammer doesn't mar. Might surprise you how much bend industrial paints "may" survive and not flake-off.

    Need curved striking support? Wet a half-filled sand bag and shape your curve.

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  24. #56
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    I pulled the sheetmetal off the headstock:


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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    I pulled the sheetmetal off the headstock:
    "Form follows function".

    Uncanny resemblance to Cazeneuve HB.

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  27. #58
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    Looks pretty clean until you get toward the bottom where all of the oil leaks show up!!!

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    "Form follows function".

    Uncanny resemblance to Cazeneuve HB.
    Pics of the Cazaneuve setup?

    All 6 belts look to be in good condition.
    Not sure what tension they should be at, but they are probably fine as they are.
    Iím definitely not going to tweak anything until I know.

    I got some pictures of the spindle motor plate.
    GE totally enclosed, machine tool duty, shunt wound 240V DC motor, 1150/3450 RPM, 56A, 120V field voltage.
    Thereís a tachometer.
    Please forgive the picture angle and quality; kinda hard to take good pictures jamming your arm into a cramped, dirty enclosure.







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    I opened the electrical cabinet and the GE Valutrol drive seems overly complicatedÖ











    Apparently I have cornered the market in GE Valutrol DC drive boardsÖ
    There were three boards sitting loose in the electrical cabinet labeled as ďBadĒ



    And another identical one installed in the drive:

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