Lodge & Shipley AVS 2013 - Page 4
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 107
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Victoria, Texas, USA
    Posts
    4,892
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3624
    Likes (Received)
    1399

    Default

    I bet there's a few guys that hang out here that may be able to repair those boards for you. Cost might be an issue. But to have them on hand for down machine would be a lifesaver. Ken

  2. Likes rpseguin liked this post
  3. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    I bet there's a few guys that hang out here that may be able to repair those boards for you. Cost might be an issue. But to have them on hand for down machine would be a lifesaver. Ken
    Yeah, Iím sure there are people here that could.

    Iím thinking Iíll try the lathe out as it is, but Iím thinking I might make some expensive smoke.

    If it doesnít work, Iíd be inclined to ditch the GE Valutrol and simplify the whole setup with a more modern DC drive.

  4. Likes 4GSR liked this post
  5. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    I bet there's a few guys that hang out here that may be able to repair those boards for you. Cost might be an issue. But to have them on hand for down machine would be a lifesaver. Ken
    A few million guys, actually. Or DIY, "OJT" as you go. One can create a schematic, or even just replace components without it.

    They are not at all difficult when you have enough to be able to read all the component values so as to go find replacements. Time consuming though.

    These were decent drives.

    But so are several generations of newer ones that are a great deal simpler and cleaner to work with.

    How to interface a modern "4Q" DC Drive to all that wire and all those terminals?

    Just remove them.

    The 4Q drive, they are on its internal PCB or even inside integrated circuits.

    "Integrated circuit" meaning exactly what it says it means, the external connections are down to silly-FEW.

    As with a VFD, all the COMPLICATED s**t has been moved INSIDE a single "box".



    Mind.. one still has to dig into the wall and "mine" for enough POWER to run the b***h, same as if seeking gold!

    "As presently constituted" it is a 3-Phase-only consumer, and not a trivial one.

  6. Likes rpseguin liked this post
  7. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    A few million guys, actually. Or DIY, "OJT" as you go. One can create a schematic, or even just replace components without it.

    They are not at all difficult when you have enough to be able to read all the component values so as to go find replacements. Time consuming though.

    These were decent drives.
    First order of business will be to try it out as is. I have my suspicions that it wonít work or I might let out the smokeÖ
    You were telling me how those DC drives are picky about their 3ph power input.
    I only have my 25HP RPC, so thatís what Iím going to try with.


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    But so are several generations of newer ones that are a great deal simpler and cleaner to work with.

    How to interface a modern "4Q" DC Drive to all that wire and all those terminals?

    Just remove them.

    The 4Q drive, they are on its internal PCB or even inside integrated circuits.

    "Integrated circuit" meaning exactly what it says it means, the external connections are down to silly-FEW.

    As with a VFD, all the COMPLICATED s**t has been moved INSIDE a single "box".



    Mind.. one still has to dig into the wall and "mine" for enough POWER to run the b***h, same as if seeking gold!

    "As presently constituted" it is a 3-Phase-only consumer, and not a trivial one.
    Yeah.
    My friend Paul is a full blown expert on electric motors and transformers and he wants me to try driving it with a Variac and a big rectifier and some caps, as an experiment and as a simple DC ďdriveĒ.


    Iím willing to do the experiment, but also inclined to use a real DC drive that can also take the tach feedback and the ability to use the existing speed control potentiometer already on the lathe.

    I do like the idea of being able to drive it from single phase power instead of spinning up the RPCÖ
    The 4Q DC drives seem to top out at 7.5HP for 1ph input though and all of the DC drives are pretty pricey so far in my searching.

    Roll your own DC drive: Raspberry Pi + beefy IGBT(s) ?

  8. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    First order of business will be to try it out as is. I have my suspicions that it won’t work or I might let out the smoke…
    You were telling me how those DC drives are picky about their 3ph power input.
    I only have my 25HP RPC, so that’s what I’m going to try with.




    Yeah.
    My friend Paul is a full blown expert on electric motors and transformers and he wants me to try driving it with a Variac and a big rectifier and some caps, as an experiment and as a simple DC “drive”.
    "Friend" part I can buy. 'Full blown" could happen, too, budget if not also power goods, you try THAT s**t.

    Priced a 60A or better capable Variac?

    Variac Variable Transformer Selector

    Load regulation, accel, braking would ALL suck balls.
    Except there isn't any of any of those



    Your 25 HP idlered RPC at least has a better fighting chance.

    The DC Drive it would be serving has gentler initialization capability than a 15 HP AC induction motor. Essentially ZERO starting inrush.

    The DC load-motor in turn is happy to start motating off very meagre rations.

    Any idea what it take to simply energize the so-called "passive" Iron and Copper in a "Variac" capable of supporting a 15 HP DC motor of 240 V @ 59 Amps, load side? A very large chunk out of your bank account for openers!

    I suppose a cheaper series string of 20 12V batteries @ $100 each could at least be charged 20 - 22 hours a day so you could selective tap in 12 V increments and run for two to four hours "off grid?" All day with bigger chargers.



    I’m willing to do the experiment, but also inclined to use a real DC drive that can also take the tach feedback and the ability to use the existing speed control potentiometer already on the lathe.
    "Existing speed control potentiometer?"
    That's as daft as buying a Bentley and transferring the full ashtrays out of the old Honda Civic so it don't have an unfamiliar stink to it!
    Or fitting the solid tires as used to be on your tricycle as a wee tyke 'coz you never got a flat?

    Essentially ALL DC drives have tacho feedback input already on the PCB. Just move a Berg jumper or slide a DIP switch to set a range the Volts/1000 RPM fall into the bounds of.



    What MATTERS is the speed control is where you want the speed control to BE.

    Which is trivial to execute.

    Any DC Drive or VFD. Put what you want wherever you want it.

    Use a fake cow teat for a knob too... if ...you don't mind some folk might cornfuse it for a dildo and mistake you for a person who just didn't give a damn about public opinion?




    I do like the idea of being able to drive it from single phase power instead of spinning up the RPC…
    TANSTAAFL. Needs rather a LOT of single-phase power to do that.


    The 4Q DC drives seem to top out at 7.5HP for 1ph input though and all of the DC drives are pretty pricey so far in my searching.
    Not 7.5 HP. 12 HP.

    And all day, every day, all year. Sustained.
    18 HP for up to 60 second at a go.

    Higher power can be had. Just not as cheaply.

    You only HAVE 15 HP need under full load? You ever jockeyed a Large & Shapely at the gallop? Older ones than this could surely tighten the pucker factor! It was what they did.

    Read page 12 of 42, 514C Product_Manual. I can email you a copy if you don't already have it off the 'net.

    Conservatively rated too, SSD drives are.

    Eurotherm has a new line in Europe, too. Just twigged to it a few weeks ago. Haven't pulled the data nor reviewed it yet.

    You will still need a single-phase transformer for the boost plus noise isolation to not trash half the local grid, plus a big fat ripple-filter choke to help the load motor forget is it on 2-pulse, not 6-pulse feed.

    Better to give the RPC a chance to show what it can do?



    Roll your own DC drive: Raspberry Pi + beefy IGBT(s) ?
    Raspberry pop-tart don't know shite about pushing even its OWN electrons 'til somebody who does know figures out what to teach it.

    Cost you about twice the price of buyin' off-the-shelf after the first set or three of components you blow-up?

    ISTR the 51XC series of SSD drives were designed about 20 or 25 years ago and were already their third generation of such goods? The Valutrol is older yet.

    Lot of catching up to do to get to where those folks who did all that for a full-time Day Job had started out already knowing?

  9. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    Did a little bit of cleaning on the L&S. LOTS more to go!

    Before:
    [/QUOTE]

    After:



    The ways on this lathe are beautiful!!





    This is a dual quick change English/metric lathe.
    However, the English/metric readout dials employ some form of black magic that has me scratching my head.



    The English dial and metric dial both rotate when cranking the handles and accurately read at the indicator line, but they have different centers of rotation!?!!?!??
    Itís awesome! I would love to know what is going on here!

  10. Likes Kjelle, Garwood liked this post
  11. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    The English dial and metric dial both rotate when cranking the handles and accurately read at the indicator line, but they have different centers of rotation!?!!?!??
    It’s awesome! I would love to know what is going on here!
    Simplicity is what is going on, there.

    "Elegance", even. [1]

    That implementation simplifies the internal gearing vs the other way - where slave dial has same center and congruent rim circumference, just different rate.

    After all.. operator only needs to read it at ONE witness mark.

    Not "all possible" anywhere on the full 360 degrees.

    Which the other approach more neatly supports.

    Whether we need and use it or never.

    [1] Onct spent four hours of a Sunday on an IBM mainframe, property of McGraw-Edison, Porter-Cable, Canonsburg, PA. Calculating the value of "pi" to 147 decimal places. 'Puters were slower before the integrated circuit was invented.

    The forth language simply uses fractions. 355/113 works well.

  12. Likes rpseguin, Kjelle liked this post
  13. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default Lodge & Shipley AVS 2013

    I temporarily wired up 450V 3ph to the electrical panel after looking it over to make sure there were no glaring errors, loose wires, Ö
    I also made sure the lines going to power the single phase small transformers used the non-wild leg.

    Made sure the power disconnect was turned off, spun up my 25HP RPC and used some ChannelLocks to turn the power disconnect switch on.

    No smoke, no bangs or crackling, Ö

    I heard the fan in the GE Valutrol DC drive spin up and the 1ph work light powered off a step down transformer came on.

    Went up front to the lathe controls and tried turning on the power switch.
    Nothing. No power indicator light.
    Toggled the EStop, but still nothing.



    There is chuck key holder on top with what looks to be an interlocking microswitch to ensure that the user leaves the chuck key there, but it looks like it is fine:




    I tried the spindle control lever, but nothing.

    Oh well!
    So much for hoping it might just work! :-)

    I figure the lack of the power on indicator light is important.
    Iím going to try to decipher the wiring and ring out what I can.

  14. Likes texasgunsmith liked this post
  15. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    Anybody here have experience with debugging/fixing/ringing out GE Valutrol DC drives?

    Iím going to check fuses and breakers first since thatís trivial.

    Anybody have a more modern 10+ HP DC drive they want to sell?
    The spindle motor is a 240VDC 15HP shunt wound DC motor.

  16. #70
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Anybody here have experience with debugging/fixing/ringing out GE Valutrol DC drives?
    Brand doesn't matter, have the manual for it.. somewhere on hard-drive.

    I'm equipped, have done others, have 3-Phase good enough, but only resistive dummy loads in that power range as to testing. Heaviest single-unit DC motor I have is but FIVE HP, here... and it is a 180-Volter even so.

    An old GE Valutrol isn't worth it if the "basics" don't bring it to life.

    Too time-consuming vs used but-good drive costs from OTHER major-makers that are still able to supply parts if need be. Or even brand-new units.

    Control Techniques, independent, then once part of Groupe Schneider, then Emerson, and now Nidec, Japan, makes very good DC Drives.

    The ubiquitous and generally economical Eurotherm, back then, Parker-Hannnifin, now, 3-Phase drives are rugged and one of the more common ones, used market.

    Their SINGLE-PHASE 514C-32-SSD is a nominal 12 HP drive with 150% pesk o'load, that can RUN that 15 HP motor. Just not at full power for other than a 60 to 90 second o'load.

    10 to 12 HP, sustained, indefinitely, isn't BADLY "crippled".


    Iím going to check fuses and breakers first since thatís trivial.
    Check the manual as to how tight the spec as to the leg to leg phase balance on the 3-Phase supply to it.

    ISTR it allows 10%? That's right about TWICE as forgiving as the 5% an ignorant 3-Phase motor "should" have for best performance..Even so.. if it detects sub-standard 3-Phase input it is MEANT to throw a flag and idle itself.


    Anybody have a more modern 10+ HP DC drive they want to sell?
    The spindle motor is a 240VDC 15HP shunt wound DC motor.
    Tons of candidates... if you have decent 3-Phase to feed 'em .

    Harder if all you have is single-phase. Hardly anybody does an affordable commodity "mass market" DC drive above 10-12 HP rating.

    "Two-pulse" DC output is rough as a cob - especially at partial power - and low-pass filter chokes / "ripple filters" assistant-integrators get physically large and rudely expensive as Amperage goes up.

  17. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Brand doesn't matter, have the manual for it.. somewhere on hard-drive.

    I'm equipped, have done others, have 3-Phase good enough, but only resistive dummy loads in that power range as to testing. Heaviest single-unit DC motor I have is but FIVE HP, here... and it is a 180-Volter even so.
    Thanks! Thatís good to know!


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    An old GE Valutrol isn't worth it if the "basics" don't bring it to life.

    Too time-consuming vs used but-good drive costs from OTHER major-makers that are still able to supply parts if need be. Or even brand-new units.
    Yeah. That makes sense to me.
    I will do a few more simple checks, but I certainly wouldnít object to upgrading to a more modern drive other than the big dent in my already thin pocketbook :-)


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Control Techniques, independent, then once part of Groupe Schneider, then Emerson, and now Nidec, Japan, makes very good DC Drives.

    The ubiquitous and generally economical Eurotherm, back then, Parker-Hannnifin, now, 3-Phase drives are rugged and one of the more common ones, used market.

    Their SINGLE-PHASE 514C-32-SSD is a nominal 12 HP drive with 150% pesk o'load, that can RUN that 15 HP motor. Just not at full power for other than a 60 to 90 second o'load.

    10 to 12 HP, sustained, indefinitely, isn't BADLY "crippled".
    10-12HP should be plenty!
    I think I would strongly prefer a single phase drive since my 3ph is from an RPC that isnít necessarily tightly balanced and it originates from the very same single phase anywaysÖ


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Check the manual as to how tight the spec as to the leg to leg phase balance on the 3-Phase supply to it.

    ISTR it allows 10%? That's right about TWICE as forgiving as the 5% an ignorant 3-Phase motor "should" have for best performance..Even so.. if it detects sub-standard 3-Phase input it is MEANT to throw a flag and idle itself.
    I will look.
    I think itís within 10% leg to leg.


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Tons of candidates... if you have decent 3-Phase to feed 'em .

    Harder if all you have is single-phase. Hardly anybody does an affordable commodity "mass market" DC drive above 10-12 HP rating.
    10-12HP should be plenty! Famous last words?

    My single phase power seems nice and stout!

  18. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    10-12HP should be plenty! Famous last words?
    My single phase power seems nice and stout!
    It will be "short rations" for that motor - but not by a lot for the actual WORK.. , and will want around 50 Amps at full-gallop, more-yet if you schlag it at or near locked-rotor!

    Overload is harmless. It trips-out electronically, need not blow a fuse.

    Even so, 7 HP makes plenty of chip, fast enuf, my Cazeneuve nominal 14" X 30" or the typical Webb-Wacheon you are already used to running.. Do the same sport of tasking, expect the same sort of power will be drawn.

    That said? I did MOST of the testing of the 514C-16 SSD off a mere fifteen Amp 246 VAC circuit and never tripped the SQ-D "QO" breaker even when I overload faulted the SSD's more sensitive logic.

    That was a -16 (Amp, sustained), 6 HP "thermal" DC Drive, exact same control and sensor logic as the lighter 514C-8 or heavier 514C-32.

    Could was a 30 or 40 Amp @ 240 VAC will carry all "normal" turning loads, a 50A good enough.

    The AVS was a HOGGER, compared to a 10EE, but your actual USE of it need not be that brutal.

    Especially as an AVS has more geared mechanical ratios to assist than the 10EE's mere ONE besides open-belt.

    NEW price of a Parker 514C-32 SSD - for reference, if not purchase - should be on a UK discounter's website.

    I'll go and do a recce..

    First three results as-at 31 August, 2021, new, with warranty. Lowest price on top. GBP 768 is about USD $1,056 and exports are VAT exempt. I can't be bothered with used when brand-new are that economical.

    DO check shipping. I've had ZERO issues ordering out of the UK, but we should chat if you go that way.

    US Parker distributors could easily be as cheap - they just don't publish their prices as often as UK ones do:

    Parker SSD: Parker SSD Drives 514C-32-00-00-00 32A Ex-Ed Drives and Controls

    UK based Parker supplier - for all your DC 514C range needs.

    Parker SSD 514C 32A 4Q 110V/230V/400V 1ph/2ph AC to DC Isolated Signal - DC Drives (1ph/2ph Input)

    Not to forget that for single-phase input, you'll need a boost / "drive isolation" transformer of 10 to 15 kVA to get your AC up to no less than 320 VAC.

    350 VAC to 380 VAC is "sweet spot" when dragging a larger motor.

    415 VAC is about the practical max.

    "Eurotherm / Invensys" is now a Schneider property and there seeme to be some badge-engineering incest afoot w/r the Shackelton Systems Development drives & Parker-Hannifin. They list an even less-expensive chassis drive in "1Q" at up to 48 A, sustained, and a "4Q" version at up to 36 A.

    Again, the heavier-lifters are all 3-Phase-only at the AC input side.

    Even though the drive cans STAND being run directly off 480-500 VAC, the SCR switching hash will trash the whole local wire plant @ 120 Hz fast-rise pulses, "broadcast".

    So the INPUT needs "at least" a high-amp Corcom style filter. An isolation transformer does most of the filtering as a byproduct, no extra charge.

    OUTPUT side of the drive:

    A 20 MILLI Henry choke smooths the motor very nicely, but the amperage you'd need is impractical for that.

    A 20 MICRO Henry choke is smaller, lighter, cheaper for the Amperage it must pass.. and will be good enough to knock the fast-rise SCR switching edges off each of those 120 to the second pulses so as not to stress the load-motor.

    You would basically be building an identical, but scaled-up at the 514C-32 DC Drive & transformer version of Everettengr's 514C-16 one for his 5 HP 10EE.

    Not that hard, Mark - and other good folk - having gone before us and shared their experience.. "right here, on PM".

    Last edited by thermite; 09-01-2021 at 03:17 AM.

  19. Likes rpseguin liked this post
  20. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,386
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1649
    Likes (Received)
    1022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Anybody here have experience with debugging/fixing/ringing out GE Valutrol DC drives?

    I’m going to check fuses and breakers first since that’s trivial.

    Anybody have a more modern 10+ HP DC drive they want to sell?
    The spindle motor is a 240VDC 15HP shunt wound DC motor.
    When you powered up the rpc and heard the fan, how long did you leave it powered up ? Any part of that need to warm up before it becomes live I wonder.

  21. Likes rpseguin liked this post
  22. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    When you powered up the rpc and heard the fan, how long did you leave it powered up ? Any part of that need to warm up before it becomes live I wonder.
    Good question!
    I probably had it on for over 12-15 minutes total while fiddling with it.

    I will try a few more things tonight.

    Thanks!

  23. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Geilenkirchen, Germany
    Posts
    2,953
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1641
    Likes (Received)
    1560

    Default

    I'm confused. You bought this lathe from Monarch. Monarch bought L&S and supports their lathes. So why did Monarch not repair this drive before they sent it to you? What was the deal?

  24. #76
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    I'm confused. You bought this lathe from Monarch. Monarch bought L&S and supports their lathes. So why did Monarch not repair this drive before they sent it to you? What was the deal?
    Cost to repair an old all-manual lathe vs reasonable expectation as to the price it could bring in a limited-interest market might apply?

    Monarch is a business.

    They sell NEW machine tools, too. "Mostly", even. CNC & "teach in" hybrids included.

    That's what industry NEEDS so as to compete effectively.

    "We chick'n's" - with low/no need to compete.. are the ones running the museums.... AKA "shops"


  25. #77
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    It will be "short rations" for that motor - but not by a lot for the actual WORK.. , and will want around 50 Amps at full-gallop, more-yet if you schlag it at or near locked-rotor!

    Overload is harmless. It trips-out electronically, need not blow a fuse.
    I donít anticipate needing full power anytime soon, if ever!
    Crack pipe dream: Eventually I will have a bigger shop with better power!


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Even so, 7 HP makes plenty of chip, fast enuf, my Cazeneuve nominal 14" X 30" or the typical Webb-Wacheon you are already used to running.. Do the same sport of tasking, expect the same sort of power will be drawn.

    That said? I did MOST of the testing of the 514C-16 SSD off a mere fifteen Amp 246 VAC circuit and never tripped the SQ-D "QO" breaker even when I overload faulted the SSD's more sensitive logic.

    That was a -16 (Amp, sustained), 6 HP "thermal" DC Drive, exact same control and sensor logic as the lighter 514C-8 or heavier 514C-32.

    Could was a 30 or 40 Amp @ 240 VAC will carry all "normal" turning loads, a 50A good enough.
    The 1ph garage breaker sub-panel is right nearby with space for suck a breaker.





    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    The AVS was a HOGGER, compared to a 10EE, but your actual USE of it need not be that brutal.

    Especially as an AVS has more geared mechanical ratios to assist than the 10EE's mere ONE besides open-belt.

    NEW price of a Parker 514C-32 SSD - for reference, if not purchase - should be on a UK discounter's website.

    I'll go and do a recce..

    First three results as-at 31 August, 2021, lowest price on top. DO check shipping. I've had ZERO issues out of the UK, but we should chat if you go that way.

    US Parker distributors could easily be as cheap - they just don't publish their prices as often as UK ones do:

    UK based Parker supplier - for all your DC 514C range needs.

    UK based Parker supplier - for all your DC 514C range needs.

    Parker SSD 514C 32A 4Q 110V/230V/400V 1ph/2ph AC to DC Isolated Signal - DC Drives (1ph/2ph Input)

    Not to forget that for single-phase input, you'll need a boost / "drive isolation" transformer of 10 to 15 kVA to get your AC up to no less than 320 VAC.

    350 VAC to 380 VAC is "sweet spot" when dragging a larger motor.

    415 VAC is about the practical max.

    Even though the drive can STAND being run directly off 480-500 VAC, the SCR switching hash will trash the whole local wire plant @ 120 Hz fast-rise pulses, "broadcast".

    So the INPUT needs "at least" a high-amp Corcom style filter. An isolation transformer does most of the filtering as a byproduct, no extra charge.

    OUTPUT side of the drive:

    A 20 MILLI Henry choke smooths the motor very nicely, but the amperage you'd need is impractical for that.

    A 20 MICRO Henry choke is smaller, lighter, cheaper for the Amperage it must pass.. and will be good enough to knock the fast-rise SCR switching edges off each of those 120 to the second pulses so as not to stress the load-motor.

    You would basically be building an identical, but scaled-up at the 514C-32 DC Drive & transformer version of Everettengr's 514C-16 one for his 5 HP 10EE.

    Not that hard, Mark - and other good folk - having gone before us and shared their experience.. "right here, on PM".

    Thanks!!

    The 514C-32 looks like a good drive and not too pricey.
    Looking around for used/refurbs.
    I see some inexpensive ones on ebay from China, but will pass on those, if only from a parts/returns issues I can foresee.

    I will call Parker. I think thereís a Parker office in Santa Rosa.
    Too bad about needing to step up the 1ph AC input. I have a smaller 1ph 240V to 480V, but canít do 320V-360V high side.
    My 1ph is a solid 244V.

  26. #78
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    I'm confused. You bought this lathe from Monarch. Monarch bought L&S and supports their lathes. So why did Monarch not repair this drive before they sent it to you? What was the deal?
    I was told that there was a problem with the DC drive, so I bought it knowing that.

  27. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1228
    Likes (Received)
    197

    Default

    So I pulled out my multimeter and verified that there are no blown fuses in the cabinet.

    I think I saw the green drive ready LED flicker on for an instant after I turned on the electrical, but that could be wishful thinking on my part, and even if it did, I am not sure thatís actually indicative of anything.

    I played with the lathe power switch button on the control panel to no avail.
    The power indicator light on the lathe control wouldnít come on.
    The power on instructions in the manual indicate the power switch is a 3 position momentary with left/off momentary and right/on momentary. My power switch feels like a 3 position switch with no momentary.
    I will pull this panel off and check the switches and try to trace the wiring

  28. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Too bad about needing to step up the 1ph AC input. I have a smaller 1ph 240V to 480V, but can’t do 320V-360V high side.
    My 1ph is a solid 244V.
    It isn't that hard.

    The Voltage isn't a common one, but no biggie.

    If you parallel the primaries of - for example - a 220/230/240:220/230/240

    AKA: "1:1" isolation transformer...

    ... and a 240:120 isolation transformer, then put their secondary circuits into a same-phased AKA series-aiding connection?

    You have 240 + 120 = 360 VAC nominal. Bump that by your 244 vs the nameplate nominals, and you are there.

    See Motor HP to kVA calculators, find a skosh under the motor HP as kVA expected, but it's not the whole story. More pragmatically, boost kVA should be between 1:1 HP as kVA and not over double the HP as kVA.

    Size the kVA of the members of any such "array", whether 2, 3, 4 members, by percentage carried, eg: 2/3rds // 1/3rd in this case, so your 240:240 needs to be twice the kVA rating of the 240:120.

    Round-up to commonly-available kVA of course, but not to silly over-capacity.
    I might want a 10 kVA 220:220 and a 5 kVA 220:120 here.

    In general:

    - Used VFD are usually a BAD deal.

    - Used DC drives may be OK.

    - Used transformers are USUALLY OK.

    - Used chokes (DC output side ripple-filter) are nearly ALWAYS OK.

    Last time I looked, the 514C-16 SSD wasn't too hard to find, but was no longer CHEAP nor "NOS".

    The 514C-32 SSD was hard to find and commanded prices around $700, used.

    I'd buy the new one @ $1,100 - $1,200 instead.

    When the savings are that low for the higher risk of a used one, why take that risk?

  29. Likes rpseguin liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •