looking at a mill

mpmar_bt · Jan 31, 2012

Hi all - I'm looking at another mill. It's a Cincinnati I think it's a 2mi and I think the serial number is 2APIL 2004. Hope I'm right about that - the plate is pretty scratched up.

Any Info?

What do these weigh? about 5K?

Thanks
Andrew

kpotter · Jan 31, 2012

I have a 2mi is it a horizontal? Mine is heavy but not 5 maybe 4000 or less. They are nice machines I run mine a few times a week. Not as nice as K&T but real nice. Kinda of like driving a tractor verses a sports car. The gears are clunky but they always shift the machine is noisy and rumbly but never dies.

rlbleeker · Jan 31, 2012

'54 2MI manual says horizontal plain 4625, horizontal universal 4905, vertical 5125.

abarnsley · Feb 1, 2012

Noisy and rumbly??? The 2-53 brochure agrees with above weights

My 2MI purrs like a kitten, I always thought the KT's were the tractors.. With the VN's being cement mixers...

With proper oil and and a little ultra basic hydraulic system care, they shift well enough for the Cincinnati bottom of the line model... (no syncros)

As to serial # plate.. Look directly above spindle on column (just under overarm dovetail), should be stamped there with ~3/8 ths high numbers..

mpmar_bt · Feb 8, 2012

stopped looking and

just bought the damn thing.

It's a 2ML not a 2MI. If anyone can give me any info on this I'd appreciate it. Serial number is visible in the third pic. Now got to try to get it off the trailer. Great trailer by the way - drop bed. Sunbelt Rentals called it a scissors lift trailer.

kpotter · Feb 9, 2012

That is just like mine but you have the vert head. You will like it they are real handy even if it is your only mill. As far as noisy and rumbly, I am just more used to my K&T but I will be using my cinci today, I leave it set up for one job that I do only a few times a year and today is the day.

calvin b · Feb 9, 2012

Hello Andrew,
Good deal on the 'new' mill ! That's the 'deluxe' version of my 2L.. So where are ya in VA ? I may have a spare parts manual for that critter.
Stay safe
Calvin

johnoder · Feb 9, 2012

If anyone can give me any info on this I'd appreciate it

I don't have my "book" with me, but I think the "L" in the serial indicates it was built about 1943

mpmar_bt · Feb 9, 2012

Still on trailer

Johnoder: Thanks. I'm not surprised it was made in 1943 or thereabouts. It has a plate on it from a Surplus Seller. I'd guess that it came off a decommissioned navy or MM ship after the war.

KPotter: I have a K&T too. In fact I got this one to make some of the parts to get the k&T fully up and running. So I guess you could say that noisy and rumbly is better than dead quiet.

Calvin: I'm about 60 miles south of DC and about 10 miles west of 95. And oh yes I believe I might be interested in some documentation on this mill.

I made a try at getting if off the trailer - it's a rental and my next shot will be the weekend - but I could feel my back starting to rebel. The last thing I need is to spend the next week with my back in spasm, so it looks like I'll be hanging on to that trailer for a few more days. The drop bed is really great, but as I'm thinking about it some more I wouldn't say it's the end all. It did make loading really easy, but it's heavy for being only 4X9 with a max load of 5k so it's kind of limited. Also it's a single wheel, not tandem so you got no safety margin if a tire goes.

Now I got to get the machine inside and dried out. I figure that I will have to pull the oilers in the knee. The one on the saddle is plugged up - it's pulling a vacuum. I should probably replace the gearbox oil while I'm at it. Then maybe I can get this thing fired up - really looking forward to finally getting to use one of these guys.

Any idea on oil viscosity and how much? It might be on the machine somewhere, I just don't remember seeing it.

Robert Campbell Jr. · Feb 9, 2012

I easily pulled my K & T 2H off of the same trailer, (loaded the same way, steel diamond plate, right?) with a come-along in a few minutes and I've been eligible for senior discounts for 8+ years.

The mill cantilevered out past the bevel of the bed before tipping onto the rollers at the bottom and left it mobile (but chocked) as I returned the trailer.

Bob

johnoder · Feb 9, 2012

Any idea on oil viscosity and how much? It might be on the machine somewhere, I just don't remember seeing it.

The mechanically similar (no hydraulic clutches or shifting going on) K&T 2CH of mine uses Exxon Mobil DTE Heavy Medium, but any ISO 68 or even 46 circulating oil will keep it reasonably happy.

calvin b · Feb 13, 2012

Hey Andrew sir,
From your pictures you have a 2MH with a universal spiral milling attachment..
and a 'A' arbor support.
The manual calls for ISO 46 ( dte medium) for general purpose milling..( gear train that is )
If you don't mind could you take some close up pics of the universal spiral milling attachment ? I'm really curious about it.
Thanks in advance
Stay safe
Calvin
PS I sent you an e-mail about the manual..

mpmar_bt · Feb 14, 2012

As requested

calvin b said:
Hey Andrew sir,
From your pictures you have a 2MH with a universal spiral milling attachment..
and a 'A' arbor support.
The manual calls for ISO 46 ( dte medium) for general purpose milling..( gear train that is )
If you don't mind could you take some close up pics of the universal spiral milling attachment ? I'm really curious about it.
Thanks in advance
Stay safe
Calvin
PS I sent you an e-mail about the manual..

I got the B style bracket too, but the bearing is gone. I also got the DH gearbox and change wheels but no DH though. Someday I'll have to figure out how to adapt a K&T Model H. Hope that's not considered bad form, like putting a Chevy engine in a Ford. At first I was confused by your reference to "spiral milling attachment", then I went to lathes.UK and compared the Cinci attachments and you are correct sir. Who knew that I had a Universal Spiral Milling Attachment masquerading as a vertical head? Now the gearbox and change gears for the DH make a bit more sense.

Pics

mpmar_bt · Feb 20, 2012

Oil circulation

Coming along pretty good so far.

I'm cleaning it up a bit and assessing problems. Drained the gearbox sump and filled it with diesel for cleaning. Had to learn how to rewire a motor from 440V to 220V and figure out the reversal lever is electric not mechanical. It's got some kind of interlock that's busted so only goes into forward and off and I left it off(2 hours gone there). Anyway, I got it started and all the spindle speeds work but I noticed that the oil sight glass on the right side of the column is dry - no oil. So how bad is this? Will it kill the mill to run it like that or is it maybe OK? I won't be using it constantly or too heavily if that makes any difference.

calvin b · Feb 20, 2012

Hello Andrew,
I just went through a little of this very thing with my 2L.. First the 'interlock' is just a spring loaded stop.. just put the motor shifter in the 'off' position and push in on the little stud.. when it pops in you can then change the direction of the motor.. the other side will pop out.. It's just so you can't change directions if you do a panic stop//
Now on the oil question.. First off the critter uses 'oil slingers' for lubrication not an oil pump proper.. So if the spindle rotates counter clockwise the 'slingers' fling the oil on the opposite side of the main casting away from the sight glass.. Takes awhile to 'build up' oil and get it to the sight glass. ( takes my machine about half an hour to get good flow) Now if you reverse the motor (clockwise) the oil will fling against the sight glass and you'll get almost immediate flow. I 'warm' my machine up this way for about five minutes..
You may want to take the 'hatch cover' off the side where the sight glass is located just to clean it a bit.. there is no gasket or anything.. just two screws I believe.. What I'm describing is not the glass itself but the 6 inch or so hatch..
Hope this helps
Stay safe
Calvin
PS I'm using mobil dte medium circulating oil in my machine.. iff'n you don't mind may I inquire as to what oil you are using ? Also what is the taper in the spiral attachment..
PPSS the oil level should be just below the threads where the street el cap is.. right full up it is

mpmar_bt · Feb 20, 2012

oil

Calvin: Yes that helps a lot. I was a bit worried that I'd have to take the whole thing apart. I'll reverse the wiring I see if the oil shows up in the sight glass.

Right now it's full of diesel oil for cleaning and probably not enough of it. Judging by the 1 1/2 gallons of sludge that came out of the gearbox it really needed some cleaning. I don't intend to run it like that for long, just maybe 10 - 15 minutes total. This is the second rinse. I got really lucky with an Enco free shipping deal and got a five gallon bucket of cutting oil and a case of DTE Heavy Medium circulating oil - which is going into the gearbox.

The head has a 40 taper. Since you're interested I'll try to remember to take a couple of pics when I knock it down and clean the 50 years of hardened grease out of it.

mpmar_bt · Feb 21, 2012

Some interesting finds

When I tell someone I got this mill from a school they often say something like "School shop tools - rarely used often abused".

Well most of the abuse is more like neglect. Low oil in the gearbox, monumental amounts of dirt and swarf - I found a 10" file buried under dirt in one of the table T-slots, an inch and a half water in the coolant sump - that kind of thing.

Ah but the vice. That poor thing really took it on the nose. A lot.

The other "interesting" find were the electrics. I found a connection in the starter box that was a stripped wire wrapped around a ring terminal and taped. Ground? What's that? Could it be that white wire sticking 6" out of the box with an inch stripped? My favorite find was the "melting alloy" thermal overload. Copper melts eventually right?

Fasto · Feb 21, 2012

mpmar_bt said:
Ah but the vice. That poor thing really took it on the nose. A lot.

I've got that exact vise - in better shape - in use on my B&S horizontal.
Somewhere on the antique board there's a thread about my cleaning it up.

calvin b · Feb 21, 2012

Hello Andrew,
Holy crap brother ! If I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing you 'starter box' is a bodge job.. If I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing things should be like this.. Each of the three poles should have a 'heater'.. a type of mechanical self resetting fuse.. anyhow I really don't think they should be replaced with wires.. So anyhow.. the switch you have should just send power from the source to the machine.. the reversing is done on the machine with the rotary switch that is mounted on the left side of the machine as you are standing in front..
See pic.. The machine should have a really nice drum switch on it already..
Hope this helps
Stay safe
Calvin
PS I've included a pic of my manual starter arrangement.. I'll post a pic of the heaters in a bit..

mpmar_bt · Feb 22, 2012

Milling head off

Yeah the electrics were an accident waiting to happen. I'll have to replace the mag starter anyway because it has 440V coil and looks like it may not be dual voltage. I also want to add at least a stop button up front. Currently the stop/start buttons are on the box back low on the right side. That's a fine place for an Estop if your arms are six feet long.

I got the spiral/vert head off. Added a couple more pics. Man that ancient grease really stinks. I'm going to have a job cleaning that mess out. I think the taper adapter was shop made, it seems unlikely that Cincinnati would have sent out an adapter with a slightly rough finish and with loose keys. They did a pretty good job though, seems to work fine.

I was expecting the ram and the bracket to be all gummed and seized up but was pleasantly surprised when it all came loose pretty easily. Topped it up with more diesel fuel and got oil flowing in the sight glass right away - all good so far. Ran it for a bit to get some nice cleaning action, played with the feeds a bit and then shut it down. Found out why the gear box oil level was so low and the coolant sump was so full. The pulley bracket in the back seems to be missing a gasket or something. In about 15 minutes about a quart of oil leaked from the base. Most of it made it's way into the coolant sump. Looks like my next step is to remove the pulley and bracket and put a gasket in there.

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