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Looking at purchasing a Clausing 13X36 lathe, rough around the edges

ttyR2

Plastic
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Location
Athena, OR
I have a lead on a Clausing 13X36. It's the same model as this one, but not in as nice a condition, and no DRO:

4504.jpg


It's been outside for probably a year. The ways have some surface rust, but nothing chunky. I'm not making parts for NASA or anything, so figure a good scrubbing with some red Scotchbrite would probably bring it back to usable condition.

Most of these I see on ebay go for anywhere from $1500 up to $3500 or so. If you were looking at the lathe, how much would you deduct for surface rust? With the price of scrap these days, it's worth way more than that.

I don't know what the serial number is, so can't pull up the year.
 
That's a re-badged " Colchester " I think. If they've been looked after they're a good little lathe. I think that design ran from the 1950's through to the early 1960's over here.

Regards Tyrone.
 
Personally I wouldn't ant to give a lot more than scrap for it ,they have very expensive Gamet bearings and if the weather has got into those the machine is only good for spares.

The previous owner obviously didn't think much of it to throw it outside and it could even be that the bearings had already gone or there was some other major fault.

It is up to you of course but I certainly wouldn't go over a few hundred dollars.
 
Re-Badged Colchester Master Mk 1 1/2, basically Mk2 carriage on Mk 1 castings. Probably late 1950's early 1960's not that it matters much as condition is everything. Rule 1 is re-furbishment is not economically possible. To do the job properly will cost far more than a better machine. Repair is possible, assuming parts can still be found, given a sound machine as the incremental cost of fixing comes out less than replacing with another used machine. Possibly even going as far as headstock bearings which, as Sable says are eye-wateringly expensive. Different story when it comes to buying. Any problems in the top of the headstock such as bearings or clutch packs make it walk away time.

Really you need some history. In production or job shop work these were made as disposable lathes to be destroyed for the value of the work produced. However relatively low price, due to flow line production, respectable accuracy and decent specification meant that a goodly proportion of machines went into maintenance shops, training and the lower end toolroom shops where they got either relatively little use or were looked after. One with that history and little subsequent job shop abuse is, as Tyrone says, a nice little lathe. My pal Mike the Pilot has one that started out with maintenance shop history followed by standing around at the back of various garages for occasional jobs. Its almost unworn. Got it for "£650 if you pick it up" in 2006. Which is about right as it came with a Dickson QC with 10 toolholders and a Multisize collet set as well as the usual chucks and all standard equipment. Totally unnecessary grot paint job tho'.

On any machine worth buying the headstock bearings will be OK. Pretty much everything else should wear out first. If it hasn't there had better been a very good reason! Clutch packs should be OK on a machine sufficiently unworn to be worth buying. Most likely trouble there is maladjustment. Its not that difficult to get right but you do need to read the instructions. Generally folk tamper with the clutch to fix a different problem. Screwed up clutch and brake adjustment is the first place I'd look for a reason why an apparently useable machine was moved outside. If the clutch is bad due to wear there will be plenty of evidence elsewhere. Headstock gears go from noisy to where are my earplugs as normal. If you don't have to shout it will last long enough in home shops. Block style gibs are effective but defeat many technicians. Threading half nut really is a half nut so it wears. Hunt the shear pin is a nice game when the power feed fails and you don't have a manual. The overload device in the feed drive has a mind of its own when it gets old. Nothing that a strip, clean and careful reassembly won't fix but monumentally frustrating if you don't. Another reason for moving it out. Tailstocks wear. If the poppet jumps up and down and / or won't lock its good evidence that the machine is past it. Some unnecessary cleverness in the electrical switch gear defeats folk without the manuals.

Always a serious risk if you can't run it up. Even something as simple as a blown motor may be enough for a neglected and down at heel machine to be moved out for a plug'n play replacement. A couple or four days work to clean, lubricate and set up properly along with some minor replacements is a bargain for Home Shop Guy. For Commercial Man a replacement is cheaper it being too expensive to pay for the time needed to undo neglect. Heck often its too expensive to even haul the exiled machine further away than the yard! Especially if its not been used in years and the space is needed.

Be very careful. Start bid is scrap price and I'll haul. Scrap plus E-Bay prices for chucks, steadies and accessories if in OK condition is about as far as I'd go. Walk away if its a bare machine sans chucks et al. Wonderful bargains and money pits look much the same in this scenario.

Clive
 
A friend of mine has one that he bought cheap completely disassembled. Luckily for him, practically everything was in very good condition. I really like the design of the chip tray (except for when you drop something important in it).
His lathe had a signature somehow typical of British engine: it leaked copiously oil from the headstock. In his case the culprit was the aluminum cover on the back of the headstock and he had to drill and tap additional holes in it in order to fix the issue.
I don't know how frequent is this problem in this model. But I would be careful in the inspection to make sure that the headstock oil level is reasonable and that there aren't signs of it being run with little or no oil.

Paolo
 
Re-Badged Colchester Master Mk 1 1/2, basically Mk2 carriage on Mk 1 castings. Probably late 1950's early 1960's not that it matters much as condition is everything. Rule 1 is re-furbishment is not economically possible. To do the job properly will cost far more than a better machine. Repair is possible, assuming parts can still be found, given a sound machine as the incremental cost of fixing comes out less than replacing with another used machine. Possibly even going as far as headstock bearings which, as Sable says are eye-wateringly expensive. Different story when it comes to buying. Any problems in the top of the headstock such as bearings or clutch packs make it walk away time.

Really you need some history. In production or job shop work these were made as disposable lathes to be destroyed for the value of the work produced. However relatively low price, due to flow line production, respectable accuracy and decent specification meant that a goodly proportion of machines went into maintenance shops, training and the lower end toolroom shops where they got either relatively little use or were looked after. One with that history and little subsequent job shop abuse is, as Tyrone says, a nice little lathe. My pal Mike the Pilot has one that started out with maintenance shop history followed by standing around at the back of various garages for occasional jobs. Its almost unworn. Got it for "£650 if you pick it up" in 2006. Which is about right as it came with a Dickson QC with 10 toolholders and a Multisize collet set as well as the usual chucks and all standard equipment. Totally unnecessary grot paint job tho'.

On any machine worth buying the headstock bearings will be OK. Pretty much everything else should wear out first. If it hasn't there had better been a very good reason! Clutch packs should be OK on a machine sufficiently unworn to be worth buying. Most likely trouble there is maladjustment. Its not that difficult to get right but you do need to read the instructions. Generally folk tamper with the clutch to fix a different problem. Screwed up clutch and brake adjustment is the first place I'd look for a reason why an apparently useable machine was moved outside. If the clutch is bad due to wear there will be plenty of evidence elsewhere. Headstock gears go from noisy to where are my earplugs as normal. If you don't have to shout it will last long enough in home shops. Block style gibs are effective but defeat many technicians. Threading half nut really is a half nut so it wears. Hunt the shear pin is a nice game when the power feed fails and you don't have a manual. The overload device in the feed drive has a mind of its own when it gets old. Nothing that a strip, clean and careful reassembly won't fix but monumentally frustrating if you don't. Another reason for moving it out. Tailstocks wear. If the poppet jumps up and down and / or won't lock its good evidence that the machine is past it. Some unnecessary cleverness in the electrical switch gear defeats folk without the manuals.

Always a serious risk if you can't run it up. Even something as simple as a blown motor may be enough for a neglected and down at heel machine to be moved out for a plug'n play replacement. A couple or four days work to clean, lubricate and set up properly along with some minor replacements is a bargain for Home Shop Guy. For Commercial Man a replacement is cheaper it being too expensive to pay for the time needed to undo neglect. Heck often its too expensive to even haul the exiled machine further away than the yard! Especially if its not been used in years and the space is needed.

Be very careful. Start bid is scrap price and I'll haul. Scrap plus E-Bay prices for chucks, steadies and accessories if in OK condition is about as far as I'd go. Walk away if its a bare machine sans chucks et al. Wonderful bargains and money pits look much the same in this scenario.

Clive

I remember doing work for one pretty big company that was in a bit of financial trouble some years ago.

The owner told me " Any machine repairs that are going to cost me more than £200 don't bother. Get it out on the car park ".

I put several really good machines out on the car park there. They all ended up at the scrap yard. One was a really nice 36 inch table " Webster & Bennett " vertical boring machine with extra height. All it needed a new hydraulic pump !

Anybody who got one of those would have got a bargain. Maybe this machine is similar.

Regards Tyrone.
 
I managed to run in to the seller today and looked at the lathe a bit more. I was in a rush so forgot to get the serial number. On the plus side, the spindle spins nicely, feels smooth, and both oil sight glasses on the side of the headstock show oil at the full level and the oil looks good. Still...chuck has a lot of light surface rust, as do the ways, and the collet closer that is installed. We'll see.

It has a big 440 -> 220V transformer that comes with it. Not sure what those are worth, but I certainly wouldn't need it.
 
I managed to run in to the seller today and looked at the lathe a bit more. I was in a rush so forgot to get the serial number. On the plus side, the spindle spins nicely, feels smooth, and both oil sight glasses on the side of the headstock show oil at the full level and the oil looks good. Still...chuck has a lot of light surface rust, as do the ways, and the collet closer that is installed. We'll see.

It has a big 440 -> 220V transformer that comes with it. Not sure what those are worth, but I certainly wouldn't need it.

You can easily polish the rust off the chuck.

The last place I worked had one of those only it had the later rectangular headstock casting. It was a great little lathe and I did some really good work on it. Pretty idiot proof and reliable. My only real beef was the index dial on the cross slide handwheel. It was very small and not that easy to read.

Regards Tyrone.
 
Unfortunately the current owner is asking way too much for the lathe in its current condition, and it continues to get rained on (three heavy showers since I first looked at it). Gotta just let it go and realize I can't save 'em all. Still...it's hard to believe that people just don't care. At the very least, you'd think they could see the value disappearing with the rust.

Would have been a nice lathe too.
 
It is not uncommon for a farmer to pull an old classic car out of the barn then with thinking it is a Carlisle auction value lets it set for years. Then twenty years later a bucket of rust is hauled away.

The lathe..If the guy did not value it enough to throw on a $20 tarp and then wants top dollar??? What a shame..

If bed is very good (near mint)then perhaps $1,000 less than average just for the month it takes to tear it down so value might be $1500.

See the government auctions doing that..take a lathe out of a high precision shop.. let it set in the rain for a year then put it to auction...
 








 
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