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Thread: Moore Jig borer

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    Default Moore Jig borer

    Picked up a Moore #2 borer and tooling. The two speed motor runs two reeves type drives for variable speed. It looks like those ranges are adjusted at the factory put should go to 1200 rpm on the low speed and 2400 on the high according to literature I found. Mine ranges to 800 on low and 1700 high. Does anyone know if those adjustments are made inside the panel? It sounds like coils kick in and out but I'm not familiar with how that works.

    Also wondering if anyone recognizes the work lamps as I'd like to find bulbs and lenses for them. I found no markings. Thanks, Davedscn3830.jpgdscn3834.jpgdscn3836.jpgdscn3837.jpgdscn3833.jpg

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    the problem is likely non moore vs belts, oh ya they are special and say moore right on them, the cost will be shocking!
    the drive is all mechanical, just using a boston gear motor to adjust the sheaves.

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    Will a belt problem cause both the low and high ranges to exhibit the same reduction in top end? I'll find out how heavy the cover is an look into the head. I was hoping for an electrical adjustment but should get up there and see what is happening anyway.

    Does anyone have the spec's for the original belts? I'd like to know what I'm talking about before contacting Moore. I have sources for custom belts that may be more reasonable if they are needed. Dave

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    We've got the same #2 Moore in our shop. They're a great machine. Good score on all the tooling too! You can still find them on Ebay, but they can get spendy.

    I've never had the top end apart on ours, but I would recommend getting a copy of the manual (you can still get copies from Moore or some of the other manual reprinters) as it has a lot of good info on the routine lubrication on the top end. They recommend using a 600w non-detergent gear oil (same stuff as is used in old Ford model T rear-ends) in the speed change gearbox as the more modern stuff will break down the bronze bearings up there. Also use Mobil DTE Extra Heavy for the ways and other oil reservoirs up top.

    The lamps I've seen on a lot of old Singer industrial sewing machines (1920's-1940's era). They should take a bayonet style incandescent bulb like the old automotive ones, but I'm not sure of the number. They would have had a thick glass magnifying lens held in with wire snap rings. They were kind of a precursor to the sealed beam halogen lamps like Waldmann makes. I don't think anyone makes parts for them, but you should be able to find 220v incandescent bulbs on McMaster.

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    Thanks for the info. I will take off the head cover and take a look. You are correct about the lens and snap ring. One of lights still had that. I'll have to check the wiring farther but think the lights may work off the 110v transformer. I couldn't get a voltage reading from the two prongs on the base.

    The price was too good to pass up and the tooling made the deal. If the bearings or belts need replacing, the deal won't be as good but still not terrible. The spindle sounds very smooth until the upper limit and then makes some noise so will check that out too. Dave

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    Does anyone know if the Moore Tach has an adjustment to correct the readings? I put a laser tach on it and while the reeves drives don't extend fully to high and low per the manual, the tach on the machine reads lower than my intrument which I believe to be correct. I can compensate in my head ( when I'm lucid ) but would like to calibrate the tach on the machine but don't want to screw it up as it probably would be a pain to source. Dave

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    The tach is powered by a small generator at the top of the machine, that is belt driven by the quill feed drive... My response is going to go in a different direction, and there is the risk that the thread will go south quickly because it involves precision beyond the reach of the lazy mob.
    One difference between the #2 and the #3 machine is the power feed rate, the rate on the #3 is half of the #2, the reason for this is best explained in the instruction manual for the Romicron boring system. The methods and devices will allow even an average operator to achieve +- .000080" tolerance on holes.
    So, to conform to that, the tachometer drive generator can be removed, and replaced with a compound pulley, that reduces the feed rate by 1/2 placing the machine into the parameters of the Romicron system.
    I am not saying you need to buy and use the Romicron boring head, just you need to understand it, to know why the quill feed rate was changed on the #3 machine, that is, if you want to do more then drill holes.
    All right, after mentioning that, the original tach in my machine was way off also, I cant remember trying to adjust it. I replaced the tach with a digital one that used a tiny steel disk attached to the aluminum spindle drive pully for the pick up sensor.

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    Why would a compound pulley be needed to change the feed speed? Is it just to maintain the correct tach measurements as a smaller pulley ( say reducing the feed speed by 1/2 ) would also reduce the tach readings accordingly? If I have to convert 20% in my head now, swapping to a pulley to reduce the quill and having to compensate on the tach by 50% doesn't seem any harder.

    I'm not contemplating changing the feed speed but the concept and the fix are interesting problems to solve. Does the #3 just use a smaller pulley and a tach calibrated differently and could a #2 duplicate a #3 by swapping a pulley and tach? Dave

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    Forget what I posted above. Most likely your tach is toast, Moore had a bone yard 20yrs ago, I dont know about now.
    If you cant get you tach to function, I found a digital replacement that was easy to install, and low cost "Extec" brand, I think. from MSC.

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    I'm glad you posted. I'm new to metalworking but not to machine repair so I'm happy to learn. The tach seems to work within the ranges, just incorrect so I can compensate in my head until I decide if it is worth the effort to mess with it. I'll psych up and remove the heavy hood and go through the reeves drives, grease, and heavy gear oil for the drive motor before messing much with the tach. I know the replacement belts are not quite right but they work. Might account for the slight lack of range though as they are a little longer than the originals. That will allow me to see what things look like on the top of the machine. I got some Model A 600w oil and will drain the old stuff out. I've been pumping grease into the reeves system but no grease has come out of the relief valve yet so will look at that too. It is sounding good though so I'm making progress between the Rambaudi and S and B 1024 projects. Dave

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    I cannot help with the accuracy of your tach as I have a different model Moore, but this is one option for adding a digital tach at a reasonable price. They seem well made and all, but I've yet to install the one I bought for my Hardinge HSL.

    tachoptions

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    yes!, the first unit is similar to the one I installed, it was easy to mount the sensor near the spindle drive pully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    One difference between the #2 and the #3 machine is the power feed rate, the rate on the #3 is half of the #2,
    That was a running change on the early #3 machines, not with the change from #2 to #3.

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    Can you tell us why?

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    My tach was toast so I bought an analog meter for $9. Then used my laser rpm light and changed card rpm numbers with a sharpie.
    Analog Panel Voltmeter Volt Meter AC 0 - 5V Measuring Range 44L1

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    I found out the original tach does have an adjustment for the needle. There is a cylinder made of cardboard with a spring or something like that inside. Loosening the screw and moving it right and left changed the readings on the needle so I was able to adjust to match my Laser tach. Dave

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    I found the folks at Moore very helpful, 20yrs ago anyway, and gave me many tips, this one may be useful.
    When checking tram on the machine,
    carefully stone the table free of burrs
    Use a thin but handle able gage block, I use a wear block
    with a .0001" reading test indicator in the spindle, adjust to sweep the Y surface.
    Instead of sweeping the table itself, move the indicator at 90s and slip the gage block under the indicator point at the 4 positions, at the same time the gage block is being slipped under the indicator point, it is wringing itself to the table. Do this very carefully, can you see the extra precision here vs hammering crap into a Bridgeport? If you dont need it, or want it, dont do it.

    Oh oh! the machine is out of the .00008" standard tram, what do it do? There has to be someone besides me that knows that answer, but I will probably give it up soon enough.

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    Have not trammed the table but did put a dial on the quill extended as far as possible and could not see any movement on the needle. Ran it for 20 minutes and barely warm. The quill retracted back into the spindle housing so had momentary success. Failure followed shortly when I ran my Smart Brown 1024 and had issues with the Matrix and the high speed of the motor not kicking in. Success is fleeting, failure is forever. Dave

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    Sounds like a great lathe to go along with the jigborer.
    More then 20yrs ago, I paid an expert to come into my shop and teach me the machine. I then went on using the machine to do major repairs on Harley Davidson crank cases. The machine can repair every hole except the speedometer drive hole on early XL models.
    The machine offers much better easier working in part due to the spindle housing can be retracted and retuned exactly, making using dial bore gages very easy, you know how it is on a regular mill.
    The machine is accurate and with a good DRO a case half can be worked, and then using mirror image the other case half can be worked on with accuracy. All cash money, the good old days!

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    I pulled the lower plug in my no2 control motor and about a pint of water came out, then an oily water mixture! How do you drain the motor? Thanks.


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