Need help identifying Lodge & Shipley and pricing guidance
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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Need help identifying Lodge & Shipley and pricing guidance

    All, I’m a first time poster. I found this site while searching for my first lathe. I have a budget of $3000 for the lathe and want the ability to turn some larger material than permitted by new American (in my price range) or import lathes in this price range.

    I ran across an L&S 16” 1918 (per the seller) for $2,500. I *think* it’s a 5HP unit but that is being verified at the moment.

    I have not been able to find much in the way of reviews, specs or gotchas for this lathe. I was hoping I could receive feedback, tips, opinions, etc from the crowd here.

    I will need to run it on 220, single phase VFD. Below are the only pics I have.

    Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated.


    e2b64c45-21aa-4675-92df-59eb3fad8ec3.jpg

    8b568ba5-f321-46b9-bc59-cb2dc28df496.jpg

  2. #2
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    Actually its 20 years later or MORE than 1918. More like late thirties and forties

    L&S called it the Model A

    Has the L1 spindle nose

    Good little lathes, not speedy. Likely has top speed of about 550 - unless a later model

    Manual here

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2104/15228.pdf

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    Thanks! That would explain why I couldn’t find info on it that matched the images! The seller said it has a plaque with “1918” stamped into it, can you tell me what you used to identify the year and model (I’m pretty new to all this).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadmjohn View Post
    Thanks! That would explain why I couldn’t find info on it that matched the images! The seller said it has a plaque with “1918” stamped into it, can you tell me what you used to identify the year and model (I’m pretty new to all this).
    It is an easily recognized style made by them

    It has the big notched draw back nut behind chuck - telling us it has the L type standardized spindle nose - which L&S applied to their product line January 1938. It just so happens that it is common knowledge that the 12, 14 and 16" Model A used the L1 size in that standard

    If you want a closer date, state the five digit serial you will find stamped into machined cast iron right end on top IN BETWEEN THE TWO REAR VEE WAYS.

    If it turns out you need the big hook spanner that works on the draw back nut to install and remove chucks, member Walter A can fix you up

    Thumbnail is a little earlier "Round" top Model A
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails model-round-topsm.jpg  

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    Excellent Information!!! Thank you!

    Once I get to review it in person I’ll be able to look up the SN!

    And, I realize this is probably a challenging question, but assuming it is functional, the ways are good and can hold a 2-3 thou tolerance (is that unreasonable) does the price sound appropriate?

  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadmjohn View Post
    Excellent Information!!! Thank you!

    Once I get to review it in person I’ll be able to look up the SN!

    And, I realize this is probably a challenging question, but assuming it is functional, the ways are good and can hold a 2-3 thou tolerance (is that unreasonable) does the price sound appropriate?
    I'd say 3K is twice too much unless in exceptionally great condition with loads of first class tooling

    It's a machine tool - its entirely up to YOU to make it do whatever you want - by learning its idiosyncrasies

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    We paid 2500 for our later model a , came with about 3500 worth of aloris and delivery included.

    The carriage looks basic in that it does not have some of the stuff ours has.

    Check for reverse or brake in the clutch.

    Motor should be 5 or 7.5 hp.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    The seller is asking 2,500 for the unit as shown. It's starting to sound like this one is dramatically overpriced.

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    I had a chance to go see it today, here are a few more pics

    img_20190401_140441.jpg
    img_20190401_140424.jpg
    img_20190401_140420.jpg
    img_20190401_140408.jpg
    img_20190401_140404.jpg

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    And a few more

    img_20190401_140358.jpg
    img_20190401_140344.jpg
    img_20190401_140336.jpg
    img_20190401_134556.jpg

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    36331 is from 1944

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    Having been down that rabbit hole to many times, I wouldn’t take it if he was giving it away. There was a L&S 16”x54” Powerturn 2000rpm on the Cincinnati CL a couple months ago that looked like it was off the showroom floor. It took everything I had to not make that ride. He was asking $4k but he could load and was a motivated seller.

    Its worth spending a little more and driving a little further to get a one and done machine. You could spend years, $1000’s and hundreds of hours restoring something that will always be an inferior machine.

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobby Shop View Post
    Having been down that rabbit hole to many times, I wouldn’t take it if he was giving it away. There was a L&S 16”x54” Powerturn 2000rpm on the Cincinnati CL a couple months ago that looked like it was off the showroom floor. It took everything I had to not make that ride. He was asking $4k but he could load and was a motivated seller.

    Its worth spending a little more and driving a little further to get a one and done machine. You could spend years, $1000’s and hundreds of hours restoring something that will always be an inferior machine.

    Andy
    Andy, Thanks for the input. Any chance you could expand a bit (complete novice here)? I'm not looking to restore it, just get my first lathe to create junk parts with (lol, I mean play around with). I did try all the levers and everything moves and locks into place, forward and reverse work on both the lead screw and compound. All speeds engage and sound *normal* (by normal I mean not chattery, no binding or grinding, etc). By no means was this any sort of inspection, just a basic "does it turn on and all the bits work" kind of check. I did chuck up a 1.5" piece of mild steel and did a couple facing cuts, but that was all.

    Also, I can get it for *MUCH* *MUCH* less than the sellers asking price.

    One thing, I'm stuck with a 5HP/240V machine as that's the max I can run due to power constraints. I have had great luck finding a LOT of 10HP machines, but my limiting factors have dramatically reduced what i can get. Honestly, I keep hearing stories of great old lathes for great prices, but have yet to find anything like that available. I've been looking for a few months (maybe in the wrong places) but all I see are overpriced (either from what I've read or what i can afford) from resellers / ebay or the machines I can't use because of my limitations.

    I'm not trying to justify *this* machine, I don't have an attachment to it, it just fit most of my criteria, even if rough.

    If it's not one of the old ones, Gri***y starts to become an option due to power and $$$ limitations. Not my first pick, but I'm not against it.

  19. #14
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    Ok, so I'm thinking maybe I'm starting to catch on. While not the same weight class as the L&S, is this more what one starting out may want to look for?

    Harrison M300 13" x 40" Engine Lathe w/ Acu-Rite DRO - $3250
    General Info:

    Stock #: CL-191016
    Brand: Harrison
    Model: M300
    Approx. Shipping Weight: 2,000 Lbs.
    Approx. Shipping Dimensions: 84" L x 56" W x 70" H
    Skidding Fee: $175

    Specifications:

    Swing Over Bed: 13"
    Distance Between Centers: 40"
    Spindle Speeds (12): 40 to 2500 RPM
    Spindle Nose: D1-4
    Spindle Bore: 1-1/2"
    Metric Threads (39): .2 to 14mm Pitch
    Inch Threads (35): 2 to 56 TPI
    Motor HP: 3
    Electrical: 230V/3PH

    Equipped With:

    Acu-Rite Digital Readout, Quick Change Tool Post, Foot Brake, Work Light, 3 Jaw Chuck, Chuck Key, Operating Manual

    Or this one:

    Howa 1000 16" x 40" Engine Lathe - $2500

    Stock #: CL-181116
    Brand: Howa
    Model: 1000
    Serial #: 10235
    Approx. Shipping Weight: 4,750 Lbs.
    Approx. Shipping Dimensions: 96" L x 56" W x 70" H
    Skidding Fee: $250

    Specifications:

    Swing Over Bed: 16-7/8"
    Distance Between Center: 39.37" (1000mm)
    Spindle Nose: D1-6
    Spindle Thru Hole: 2-3/64"
    Spindle Speeds (8): 60 - 1500
    Inch Threads (32): 4 - 56 TPI
    Metric Threads (21): 0.5 - 7 mm
    Motor HP: 7.4
    Electrical: 220/440V(Wired 220)/3PH

    Equipped With:

    10" Rohm Chuck, Brake System, Jog Button

  20. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadmjohn View Post
    Andy, Thanks for the input. Any chance you could expand a bit (complete novice here)? I'm not looking to restore it, just get my first lathe to create junk parts with (lol, I mean play around with). I did try all the levers and everything moves and locks into place, forward and reverse work on both the lead screw and compound. All speeds engage and sound *normal* (by normal I mean not chattery, no binding or grinding, etc). By no means was this any sort of inspection, just a basic "does it turn on and all the bits work" kind of check. I did chuck up a 1.5" piece of mild steel and did a couple facing cuts, but that was all.

    Also, I can get it for *MUCH* *MUCH* less than the sellers asking price.

    One thing, I'm stuck with a 5HP/240V machine as that's the max I can run due to power constraints. I have had great luck finding a LOT of 10HP machines, but my limiting factors have dramatically reduced what i can get. Honestly, I keep hearing stories of great old lathes for great prices, but have yet to find anything like that available. I've been looking for a few months (maybe in the wrong places) but all I see are overpriced (either from what I've read or what i can afford) from resellers / ebay or the machines I can't use because of my limitations.

    I'm not trying to justify *this* machine, I don't have an attachment to it, it just fit most of my criteria, even if rough.

    If it's not one of the old ones, Gri***y starts to become an option due to power and $$$ limitations. Not my first pick, but I'm not against it.
    Maybe I was a little harsh in my assessment. What won’t work for me, might work for you? For me, 550rpm is a limiting factor but it can absolutely make chips. If the price is right and you’re comfortable with your assessment, maybe you should go for it.
    Is it possible for you to get someone to look it over with you?

  21. #16
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    chamjohn, I'd be patient. If you really *like* that lathe, tell the owner to call you before he scraps it, and you'll beat scrap price by $50 or something.

    It may be decent under the sludge, but it looks pretty well neglected to me.


    Here in the SE is can seem like slim pickings at times, lathes seem to hit the market in clumps at random times, and everyone sees the others on places like CL or ebay and prices high. The reality is, nobody but a few of us want, can use, or are prepared to move these larger older american iron lathes.

    Little hobby sized imports will occasionally fetch numbers approaching these, but most of these things sit for months, or get sold for significantly less than asking. Put the word out locally, and you'll find a nice machine for fair money. I was looking for a heavy, but short machine and made a deal on a very pretty L&S Powerturn from another PM member, recently, after posting a "Wanted with criteria and budget in the PM Marketplace", and had offers of a few others. It's significantly nicer, better condition, and has a TON of desirable features, compared to the one you listed.

    What part of GA you in? There are a few decent looking lathes in this size class up around Colombia SC if you're in the eastern part of the state. Another PM member in Atlanta offered me a beefy American Pacemaker that looked much better than the L&S you showed, for less money.


    If you're looking through ebay or machinery dealers, I'd use half the "asking price" as your guideline for what you can probably get the machines for. If they say no, tell them to contact you when they change their mind. You'll be amazed how fast they call you back with another offer.

    The only lathes that have any "easy resell" value that these guys wont negotiate on, are newer (usually import) machines, or hobby sized stuff with name recognition like the SouthBends, etc. In many cases, they've been paid to haul off machines from plants in the first place.

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    Thanks for all the input so far.

    In talking to the seller, I can get this machine for $1,000 instead of the $2,500 he was asking. It looks like the unit may be "ok" for that price since everything worked. However, what I'm starting to understand is that for my original $3K budget I can likely get a better machine AND considerably more tooling if I'm patient. Since the tooling is what eats up the $$$$ fast waiting for the deal is probably a good idea.

    That being said, if anyone on here is interested in this unit PM me and I'll send you the seller details. I'll tell you now that you can get it for the $1K and maybe even less (but it sounds like nobody may want it, even for that price )

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    I'm confused. You speak about constraints, but you are not specific. I ask this because what you consider constraints may not be. You are correct that tooling can and often does exceed the cost of the machine. Also, because this lathe will be your only one, it has to have as much capability as possible. In that light, availability and commonality of accessories is paramount to acquisition costs. In my case, I cannot imagine owning a lathe without a taper attachment, because they are usually not available for purchase separately. You must have a 3 jaw chuck, a 4 jaw chuck, a steady rest and a quick change tool post kit. You need to avoid all lathes that have spindles other than D1-4, D1-6 or L type. All others will be scarce and expensive. I assume you may want to cut metric threads. The lathe should have those change gears. Those are the constraints you need to be concerned about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    I'm confused. You speak about constraints, but you are not specific. I ask this because what you consider constraints may not be. You are correct that tooling can and often does exceed the cost of the machine. Also, because this lathe will be your only one, it has to have as much capability as possible. In that light, availability and commonality of accessories is paramount to acquisition costs. In my case, I cannot imagine owning a lathe without a taper attachment, because they are usually not available for purchase separately. You must have a 3 jaw chuck, a 4 jaw chuck, a steady rest and a quick change tool post kit. You need to avoid all lathes that have spindles other than D1-4, D1-6 or L type. All others will be scarce and expensive. I assume you may want to cut metric threads. The lathe should have those change gears. Those are the constraints you need to be concerned about.
    Sorry if it wasn't clear. I'm limited by power and price. I can only supply 220 single phase so I need to use a VFD. The max VFD I have reserve power for is a 10HP and that is kind of pushing it, which means I'm just about limited to a 7.5 HP max machine running 220 3 phase. That and the $3K budget.

    Your post is kind of the reason I was looking at this L&S. It has the taper attachment, is 5HP, an L1 spindle and I can get it for $1K (maybe even a bit less) but it is rough looking and needs a few things. Also, shipping is almost a non issue since it is local and I have access to a sufficient capacity ramp trailer. But, again, it is pretty rough.

    The L&S does not come with any alternate gears, and I don't even know if that is an option for this model. As for *need* to cut metric, this is all hobby use for learning, not any sort of production. If I'm making mating parts I don't have a need for metric. However, with the increasing use of metric threads here in the US on production items, it may be that I need to match something existing at some point.

    Where I'm really stuck is the basic question (in my mind) is this machine good to start on for the $1K price, given that I'm learning or will that hinder me dramatically.

  27. #20
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    Slow speed is about the only limitation.

    We have same unit as the big lathe and later found a SB 14.5 that is the common use one as for small stuff it is better, we added vfd on it.

    The L&S however will get the job done.

    Take a 3/8 chip in one pass (3/4 reduction in diameter) without working hard..

    Your limitation is that it takes a big hunk of floor space.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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