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  1. #21
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    Chadmjohn,
    I am a real fan of L&S machinery. This stuff is first class professional equipment. I am not an expert though, Johnoder is. So if you have specific questions on this Model A, John is your man. However these machines take no prisoners. These are big, heavy and can remove a limb and not even breath hard. In that respect, it is NOT a good learning machine. Adding to that, this machine was built long before OSHA and safety gear. Please keep that in mind. Yes, it doesn't have very high spindle speeds, but they are rarely used on large diameter work anyway. As a hobby machine, you will never be under time constraints, so spindle speed is a non-issue. My L&S has a clutch and brake and is really very nice, but I'm not sure if a model A has. Perhaps John knows? In any case small, lower end lathes rarely have that feature, so if it does have a clutch & brake, that would be a real plus. The model A was designed to use HSS tools not carbide. It can use carbide of course, it is stiff enough for sure, but carbide likes speed. The model A will take a lot of space and you will need access all around for cleaning and general service. Even though the ideal hobby machine size is a 13 x 40 machine, the price is right for the the model A. If is doen't hurt you, it is worth a shot. Remember, soap is cheap. There may be a real gem under the dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    Slow speed is about the only limitation.

    We have same unit as the big lathe and later found a SB 14.5 that is the common use one as for small stuff it is better, we added vfd on it.

    The L&S however will get the job done.

    Take a 3/8 chip in one pass (3/4 reduction in diameter) without working hard..

    Your limitation is that it takes a big hunk of floor space.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    Yeah, you're not kidding on the cut depth! In testing it I did about a 1/8" cut and the motor barely made a change in pitch! As for floor space, I have a LOT of that available
    Last edited by Chadmjohn; 04-03-2019 at 01:17 PM.

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    Johnoder is
    Actually, I am just fortunate to have some old paper to look at

    Perhaps John knows?
    As to STOPPING, the older Model A catalog (August 1936) states POSITIVE MECHANICAL BRAKE

    This of course assumes it hasn't completely worn out over the last seventy-five years

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    I know where there is a 20" x 64" L & S lathe, a 1954 model that I rebuilt a few years back. It's for sale again. The only draw back is, it's been sitting under a lean-to "barn" for the last four years, covered in desert dirt and such. Located in Laredo, Texas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    I know where there is a 20" x 64" L & S lathe, a 1954 model that I rebuilt a few years back. It's for sale again. The only draw back is, it's been sitting under a lean-to "barn" for the last four years, covered in desert dirt and such. Located in Laredo, Texas.
    Would you please PM me the info?

  9. #26
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    I would still hold out. I'm gonna offer the dissenting opinion regarding spindle speed here, yes, it's not a non-starter, but there are points of impracticality for your use.

    If you're mostly going to be doing large diameter work, the spindle speed will be fine. Thing is, many of us turning in the "learning/hobby" sphere, usually aren't doing mostly large diameter work, and often working with softer metals or wanting to turn stainless.


    If the max spindle were even 800, I wouldn't be responding here, but IMO this machine will severely limit you on small work. Most of the later model L&S's and other big lathes went way up on max spindle speed. Think the Powerturn I'm buying has a top spindle of 2k RPM, and a huge range inbetween.

    Regardless of what you'll read also, as much as you need to learn to grind and use HSS toolbits, there are situations where carbide will be majorly advantageous, and there's plenty of cheap tool holders that work great with manual lathes, and inserts that can do shit that I haven't remotely figured out how to achieve with HSS, especially with tricky stainless or carbon steel, but spindle speed is a major limit here, from what I've seen.

    I am by no means remotely an expert or have any of the experience or knowledge of these guys, I've only been turning for a couple years, milling and grinding much longer, but even in that, I'm an amateur at best, but what work I do, is for a living, not without consideration for time or cost.




    Another factor, the L&S Powerturn I'm buying originally shipped with a 20hp spindle motor, *however*, my understanding is, that it's very easy to adapt to smaller HP motor, in fact, it was fitted long ago with a 10hp motor. I'm not sure about the Pacemaker's, etc, but I'm guessing plenty of machines have this possibility.

    The later machines offer soo much quality of life features also, besides RPM. The powerturns for example offer multiple speed automatic tailstock feeds, automatic traverse stop, instant reverse of lead screw, multiple feed engagement points, etc. etc. etc. Various machines offer various features. However, I agree, that these are probably not the machines to learn on. They will literally kill you, very easily, if you make the wrong mistake.


    I've been learning on a Taiwanese Jet 13x25, and while I've got some specific needs for a very beefy machine, and a major heavy iron/tool junkie addiction to justify my purchase, I haven't actually run into the limitations of this machine other than HP (related to my specific needs). It's very forgiving, and I can still turn a near mirror finish in 2" diameter 400 series stainless with the right inserts, plus thread everything inch or metric, etc.



    Do you have any ideas about what you think you'll be using the machine for? If you're looking for a "one machine" solution, I definitely don't think that L&S is it. I'd recommend also, ignore the potential lower cost, you'll regret pinching pennies here. Buy the absolute best machine with the most accessories possible, with the entirety of your budget. Also, a taper attachment is very nice to have, but you can find one, rig one, build one, and personally, I've never actually *needed* one yet. You can turn short tapers with the compound, and there's plenty of other ways to make them happen, intentionally or otherwise.

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by javan.dempsey View Post
    I would still hold out. I'm gonna offer the dissenting opinion regarding spindle speed here, yes, it's not a non-starter, but there are points of impracticality for your use.

    If you're mostly going to be doing large diameter work, the spindle speed will be fine. Thing is, many of us turning in the "learning/hobby" sphere, usually aren't doing mostly large diameter work, and often working with softer metals or wanting to turn stainless.


    If the max spindle were even 800, I wouldn't be responding here, but IMO this machine will severely limit you on small work. Most of the later model L&S's and other big lathes went way up on max spindle speed. Think the Powerturn I'm buying has a top spindle of 2k RPM, and a huge range inbetween.

    Regardless of what you'll read also, as much as you need to learn to grind and use HSS toolbits, there are situations where carbide will be majorly advantageous, and there's plenty of cheap tool holders that work great with manual lathes, and inserts that can do shit that I haven't remotely figured out how to achieve with HSS, especially with tricky stainless or carbon steel, but spindle speed is a major limit here, from what I've seen.

    I am by no means remotely an expert or have any of the experience or knowledge of these guys, I've only been turning for a couple years, milling and grinding much longer, but even in that, I'm an amateur at best, but what work I do, is for a living, not without consideration for time or cost.




    Another factor, the L&S Powerturn I'm buying originally shipped with a 20hp spindle motor, *however*, my understanding is, that it's very easy to adapt to smaller HP motor, in fact, it was fitted long ago with a 10hp motor. I'm not sure about the Pacemaker's, etc, but I'm guessing plenty of machines have this possibility.

    The later machines offer soo much quality of life features also, besides RPM. The powerturns for example offer multiple speed automatic tailstock feeds, automatic traverse stop, instant reverse of lead screw, multiple feed engagement points, etc. etc. etc. Various machines offer various features. However, I agree, that these are probably not the machines to learn on. They will literally kill you, very easily, if you make the wrong mistake.


    I've been learning on a Taiwanese Jet 13x25, and while I've got some specific needs for a very beefy machine, and a major heavy iron/tool junkie addiction to justify my purchase, I haven't actually run into the limitations of this machine other than HP (related to my specific needs). It's very forgiving, and I can still turn a near mirror finish in 2" diameter 400 series stainless with the right inserts, plus thread everything inch or metric, etc.



    Do you have any ideas about what you think you'll be using the machine for? If you're looking for a "one machine" solution, I definitely don't think that L&S is it. I'd recommend also, ignore the potential lower cost, you'll regret pinching pennies here. Buy the absolute best machine with the most accessories possible, with the entirety of your budget. Also, a taper attachment is very nice to have, but you can find one, rig one, build one, and personally, I've never actually *needed* one yet. You can turn short tapers with the compound, and there's plenty of other ways to make them happen, intentionally or otherwise.
    I own a PowerTurn and they are the Cadillac of lathes.....no question. Some of the features your machine has are not standard on the PowerTurn. If your machine has them, it is probably a tool-room model. Some were also equipped with a rapid traverse as well. The 2 speed tailstock is very, very handy. I do disagree with your HSS and carbide opinion. Yes, the pwerTurn does have 24 spindle speeds with a max of 2000 rpm, but I have never used more than 600 rpm in 10 years.........jus sayin. I am also contrary to your advice on taper attachments. You have clearly never tried to find and install one or you would not have said what you did. Both finding and installing one is a major task and it always involves serious changes to the cross feed and carriage, even on small lathes.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    I own a PowerTurn and they are the Cadillac of lathes.....no question. Some of the features your machine has are not standard on the PowerTurn. If your machine has them, it is probably a tool-room model. Some were also equipped with a rapid traverse as well. The 2 speed tailstock is very, very handy. I do disagree with your HSS and carbide opinion. Yes, the pwerTurn does have 24 spindle speeds with a max of 2000 rpm, but I have never used more than 600 rpm in 10 years.........jus sayin. I am also contrary to your advice on taper attachments. You have clearly never tried to find and install one or you would not have said what you did. Both finding and installing one is a major task and it always involves serious changes to the cross feed and carriage, even on small lathes.
    Not claiming to be any kind of expert on taper attachments, just that I've seen all sorts of "rigged" up ones for lathes that didn't have original ones. Nor am I claiming they're not super nice to have, just, that I wouldn't buy a clapped out beater with a low top speed as my first, and only, learner lathe, because it has one.

    I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

    In regards to HSS and carbide, you may be able to achieve the same or better results with HSS, I can't, I'm still a turning novice, but I've logged a lot of hours on my little lathe, and there are things that so far, me personally, I've only been able to achieve with carbide. More importantly, it's been heavily proliferated here, like some vague unexplained mantra, that carbide has no place on a manual lathe (or mill, or pretty much any other manual machine), for a long time. That's been changing, but if he's reading old posts, he may not realize that. Do you disagree with this also?


    Maybe your work never requires it, and maybe the OP only plans to turn larger diameter stuff, but I run my little import maxed out RPM all the time, and wish it went higher. I may never run my Powerturn anything near top speed either, but I'm keeping my smaller lathe, hopefully replacing it with something nicer, and I'm certain, I will continue turning small diameter parts at higher speed. That said, I'm regularly making parts in the sub-0.250" diameter. Which is why I asked if the OP had any idea what he anticipates turning.


    I tried to be clear above, and I'll reiterate, I'm not offering an "expert" opinion here, I'm trying to offer the perspective of an enthusiast, who's likely recently been through the same experiences the OP will soon. Frankly I also agree with others here that he may be choosing a lathe that's too big and dangerous to start with, and I wasn't recommending he find a Powerturn, I was simply using the one I'm getting, to give an example of some of the QOL upgrades newer (but still vintage) lathes may offer if he's patient. Yeah, some of those features are pretty uncommon, but there are many others which are common, that the very old L&S he's thinking about, doesn't have.

    Hopefully that makes better sense.

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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by javan.dempsey View Post
    N
    In regards to HSS and carbide, you may be able to achieve the same or better results with HSS, I can't, I'm still a turning novice, but I've logged a lot of hours on my little lathe, and there are things that so far, me personally, I've only been able to achieve with carbide. More importantly, it's been heavily proliferated here, like some vague unexplained mantra, that carbide has no place on a manual lathe (or mill, or pretty much any other manual machine), for a long time. That's been changing, but if he's reading old posts, he may not realize that. Do you disagree with this also?


    Maybe your work never requires it, and maybe the OP only plans to turn larger diameter stuff, but I run my little import maxed out RPM all the time, and wish it went higher. I may never run my Powerturn anything near top speed either, but I'm keeping my smaller lathe, hopefully replacing it with something nicer, and I'm certain, I will continue turning small diameter parts at higher speed. That said, I'm regularly making parts in the sub-0.250" diameter. Which is why I asked if the OP had any idea what he anticipates turning.


    I tried to be clear above, and I'll reiterate, I'm not offering an "expert" opinion here, I'm trying to offer the perspective of an enthusiast, who's likely recently been through the same experiences the OP will soon. Frankly I also agree with others here that he may be choosing a lathe that's too big and dangerous to start with, and I wasn't recommending he find a Powerturn, I was simply using the one I'm getting, to give an example of some of the QOL upgrades newer (but still vintage) lathes may offer if he's patient. Yeah, some of those features are pretty uncommon, but there are many others which are common, that the very old L&S he's thinking about, doesn't have.

    Hopefully that makes better sense.
    The argument on whether HSS or carbide is better has been beat to death in many other threads. Both have advantages and both have disadvantages. Just where that line of division lies is pretty much determined by the investment in personal tool grinding skills and grinding equipment. If the OP has an interest there, a review of these threads would be educational. I can state without equivocation that HSS usage is infinitely less expensive in the hobbyist environment than carbide once those correct investments are made.

    I can't disagree with your opinion on the older lathe. It is your opinion. I have 3 lathes for exactly those reasons. But neither you or I know the exact situation the OP is under. He knows what they are and he will make the best choice for him. There are justification for both cases.

    On another point, I would advise on this forum especially, that without specific personal experience with the subject matter, you should refrain from offering any advice. There are too many folks that play here that has specific and personal experience. You should leave that specific advice to them. Jus sayin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    The argument on whether HSS or carbide is better has been beat to death in many other threads. Both have advantages and both have disadvantages. Just where that line of division lies is pretty much determined by the investment in personal tool grinding skills and grinding equipment. If the OP has an interest there, a review of these threads would be educational. I can state without equivocation that HSS usage is infinitely less expensive in the hobbyist environment than carbide once those correct investments are made.

    I can't disagree with your opinion on the older lathe. It is your opinion. I have 3 lathes for exactly those reasons. But neither you or I know the exact situation the OP is under. He knows what they are and he will make the best choice for him. There are justification for both cases.

    On another point, I would advise on this forum especially, that without specific personal experience with the subject matter, you should refrain from offering any advice. There are too many folks that play here that has specific and personal experience. You should leave that specific advice to them. Jus sayin.

    My personal experience, is *EXACTLY* what I've offered the OP, and I'm being upfront and honest about my experience level as opposed to pretending to be an expert, as often is the case here. Not sure what exception you're taking with that.

    I also *NEVER* argued against HSS, or in favor of carbide, I use both, my argument was specifically in favor of being able to utilize both.

    You've disagreed with some of my opinions, but failed in each case to elaborate on your alternative view. I'm ok with agreeing to disagree, but honestly, I think we're simply not compatible in terms of the way we communicate, so I'll bow out, and defer to your expertise, although I would love to see you explain your perspective, as I certainly have tried to.

    The OP has told me directly that he's been appreciative of my view, and I've only offered it as such, my subjective, somewhat limited angle, not making *any* claims what so ever of having an objective answer. You're correct, neither of us knows the OP's specifics, which is exactly why I asked for him to explain his view of them.

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  18. #31
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    All,

    This thread has been INVALUABLE in my search. The factual information regarding equipment, configurations, etc has really helped set an expectation and target my needs / desires. On top of that, the opinion / experience based information has been equally, if not more valuable. I find the input from seasoned professionals as well as those new to machining to be very informative.

    My initial requirements were:

    1) Something able to be run on 240v single phase (either native or VFD)
    2) Absolute maximum draw of 50 amps with 30 being a preference
    3) Under $3,000
    4) Not really a "requirement" but a strong desire was a heavy American Iron machine.

    In reading the posts in this thread, some others on the site and a bit more research on the net my initial requirements changed a little bit. One of the most valuable were the multiple references to trying to obtain tooling in the deal if at all possible. Once I started comparing the available lathes sold alone vs. those sold with tooling (which were more challenging to find) I discovered that for the same price, you almost get the lathe "for free". Not exactly, but for example a lathe selling for $2,500 on it's own can be found for about the same money, or a very small amount more, with a great quantity of tooling.

    Secondarily, there were recommendations to consider more modern (i.e. import) equipment. While not as heavy or capable in some fringe cases (mostly very large turning), for a 'newbie' it may be a better route due to ease of use / features, availability of the lathe as well as parts, and some reality on what I will honestly be turning (hobby / learning at this point).

    Taking all of this into account I began expanding my search for deals on more *modern* (import) equipment. Being that they are lighter (in what I need) it opened my options considerably as i could transport them myself (~3,000 lbs I can do, I can't do much more than that with help or equip rental). The transportation cost of heavy equipment added into the cost of the machine.

    Also, when considering more modern equipment, there were a large number configured for 240V single phase. Saving me on buying a VFD or finding a deal with one bundled, again adding to the cost of the deal.

    When I considered the ability to transport myslef and not requiring a VFD, modern equipment became 'the deal' for me.

    By absolute shear coincidence, they day I came to this conclusion a local unit (4 hour drive) came up for sale as a package deal. The lathe and, as the seller put it, "everything I have to go with it". The ad was for a Jet GH-1440W, configured for 240V Single Phase. After checking it out, it was the unit for me!

    I now have my very first lathe! I am pretty excited. It's obviously from a working environment, the paint is rough, but mechanically it runs great in all speeds and gears. It even came with a pretty good amount of tooling.


    gopr0506.jpg
    gopr0515.jpg
    gopr0518.jpg
    gopr0520.jpg
    gopr0521.jpg

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  20. #32
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    Default A few more pics

    gopr0522.jpg
    gopr0531.jpg
    gopr0532.jpg

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    When I bought it, there were 2 'knobs' missing from some levers. So......I made new ones!!!

    This is the *FIRST* thing I have ever turned! It was out of crap HRS, so it is what it is.....
    img_20190412_151813.jpg

    And here is the *SECOND* thing I've have ever turned!
    img_20190412_151819.jpg


    So, um, yeah....... I'm hooked!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadmjohn View Post
    When I bought it, there were 2 'knobs' missing from some levers. So......I made new ones!!!

    This is the *FIRST* thing I have ever turned! It was out of crap HRS, so it is what it is.....
    img_20190412_151813.jpg

    And here is the *SECOND* thing I've have ever turned!
    img_20190412_151819.jpg


    So, um, yeah....... I'm hooked!
    This is the optimum size for a single lathe solution. It is reasonably equipped. Does it have a D1-4 spindle? Does it have a TA?. Is that a Brake pedal I see? Lastly, what was the cost?

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    That's a much more sensible purchase for a guy learning to turn on. The " Lodge & Shipley " had had a very hard life and from what I could see hadn't been looked after particularly well. How expensive is it buy a set of vee belts !

    Regards Tyrone

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    This is the optimum size for a single lathe solution. It is reasonably equipped. Does it have a D1-4 spindle? Does it have a TA?. Is that a Brake pedal I see? Lastly, what was the cost?
    D1 4 jaw came with it as well as 2 D1 faceplates. No TA though but I do plan to buy or build one. Even small tapers by hand can kinda be a PITA.

    Yeah, foot brake. As for cost, I don’t know if I got a deal or got taken, LOL. All together it was $4,500. Given that the same machine new lists for around 10K (without all the “bits” that came with mine it seemed a reasonable price.

    However, I could not find any in the used market to compare, so I had to wing it on the price.

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    It’s funny you mention the belts, that exact same though t kept going through my head. If the can’t buy belts, what else are they ignoring?

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    I think you made a smart decision, and based on what you learn from this lathe, will be in a much better position to decide on your "ultimate" primary lathe later. You got a lot of good tooling and accessories you wouldn't want to have to buy/find later, some you won't know you need until you do.


    You'll also find that thing a lot easier to resell than many of the big iron machines if you decide you just don't enjoy it anymore, or want to upgrade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadmjohn View Post
    It’s funny you mention the belts, that exact same though t kept going through my head. If the can’t buy belts, what else are they ignoring?
    I had a guy wanting me to come and look at his milling machine. The guy picked me up from home in his brand new " Porsche ". He told me the machine spindle was slipping in cut. When I removed the belt guard the machine had 1 vee belt on a 6 sheeve pulley !

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I had a guy wanting me to come and look at his milling machine. The guy picked me up from home in his brand new " Porsche ". He told me the machine spindle was slipping in cut. When I removed the belt guard the machine had 1 vee belt on a 6 sheeve pulley !

    Regards Tyrone.
    You have to ask yourself why he is driving the Porsche and not you.


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