New toy (K&T 3k vertical)
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  1. #1
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    Default New toy (K&T 3k vertical)

    A new toy with an mildly interesting back story.
    This is a Kearney & Trecker #3K vertical mill. Built in 1944. My wife is checking it out after I pulled into the barnyard with it today. She has told me that as long as my toys are older than she is, she approves.



    It actually has, embedded in the casting, something to the effect of "War Production Approved Finish, WPB L-100".
    It barely fit in the garage while still on the trailer getting under the 10' door. We had to jack it up and remove the 4" x 4"'s that are between it and the trailer bed to get it under the door. I think it spec's at 90" high, about 9200 lbs, which I don't think includes the rather massive 7.5HP motor. And yes, I was serious about securing it, 3 chains and 4 ratchet straps. Several hours of back roads through hilly parts of Tennessee and Kentucky.

    For a lunch break I did a little "Google" research on K&T's history. They were built in Milwaukee, Wi on W. National Ave, fairly big and distinctive factory. It was slightly south of I-90 in Milwaukee, looking at pictures it was a distinctive factory that I remembered as a landmark, driving into Milwaukee to visit my maternal Grandmother, back in the 70's and early 80's. Ironically, K&T was eventually bought out by Giddings & Lewis, who my paternal Grandfather worked for long before then in Fond du Lac, Wisc.

    While it needs a good cleaning, this machine seems to be in really nice shape. Spindle sounds smooth, rapids all work. Moore pattern scraping still visible on much of the ways, only a few table hits, not much backlash. Someone also fit a DRO and scales on it, but one of the scales is bad. Don't think I'll be having too much trouble with chatter on my relatively small projects. Certainly puts my Taiwanese Bridgeport clone to shame in terms of size/rigidity. I just need to start acquiring NS 50 tooling.

    Any advice on what to check over before putting this thing to work? I'm aware that care needs to be taken to get the 3 phase set up so the motor turns the drive pulley to match the direction arrow. Figure I'll take the belts off to see which way it spins and flip the wiring if needed.

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    That's a nice machine. They were built to last for ever if they were looked after.

    Regards Tyrone

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    They have a somewhat complicated system of oil lines and wicks in the knee that can become gummed up over the years. Something I need to tear into at some point on my 2H vertical. Looks like yours was decently cared for, so there's probably not much to worry about.

    Steve Lindsay has a bunch of photos up of his 2H universal restoration, which can be helpful if you need to tear into anything:

    Steve Lindsay Shop Tour

    Andy

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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    On Monday I got the K&T 3k Vertical unloaded and into the shop. Couldn't find an all-terrain heavy forklift, had to pay the premium for a boom lift to get something with enough capacity to pick this thing up. I would have hoisted it from above, but the 7+ ft high mill wasn't going to fit under the 10' door with the fork boom over it. Something this topheavy is nerve wracking to move, to say the least. Fortunately it went well.

    It has a 10HP motor, NMTB 50 spindle. I'm searching Ebay for used NMTB 50 tooling, already got a 6" face mill and holder. Also sprung for a ER collet set and chuck from Travers.

    Before I even plug it in, I need to do a bit of re-wiring. I found it had some 16 or 18AWG (hard to read greasy wire) patched in one box going into the motor. Motor FLA is something like 26 amps, so 10AWG seems much more appropriate. The patched in 18AWG is only about 4" long, maybe somebody thought it would work as a fuse link?



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    That's a nice machine. I ran a similar machine at the old shop; had the war finish blurb cast into it, still painted war gray. Pleasant to operate, I did most heavy milling on it unless better done on the companion horizontal, rather than beat up a Bridgeport.

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    Have 2KM / 3 KM manual that can be emailed if you care to private message me that email address. The KM was a few years prior to yours

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    Quote Originally Posted by machinistrrt View Post
    That's a nice machine. I ran a similar machine at the old shop; had the war finish blurb cast into it, still painted war gray. Pleasant to operate, I did most heavy milling on it unless better done on the companion horizontal, rather than beat up a Bridgeport.

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    Beautiful machine. I've got a 3H horizontal and would love to find a 3K as a companion (the Ks are the "heavy duty" version of the Hs).

    Some good reading can be found here: Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

    I don't want to rain on your parade, but I'll mention that sometimes the scraping marks can be deceiving. I'd be surprised if that machine still had the original factory frosting. It's pretty common to find older machines that have moore pattern frosting as a way to prevent stick-slip and/or make the machine look pristine but it's often applied to the bearing surfaces "as-is" - i.e. the ways might be significantly worn despite looking like they're new. Just something to be aware of... wish someone had told me the same when I first started buying used machines

    Even if they're not pristine, you'll still love using it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TMS8C8 View Post
    Beautiful machine. I've got a 3H horizontal and would love to find a 3K as a companion (the Ks are the "heavy duty" version of the Hs).

    Some good reading can be found here: Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

    I don't want to rain on your parade, but I'll mention that sometimes the scraping marks can be deceiving. I'd be surprised if that machine still had the original factory frosting. It's pretty common to find older machines that have moore pattern frosting as a way to prevent stick-slip and/or make the machine look pristine but it's often applied to the bearing surfaces "as-is" - i.e. the ways might be significantly worn despite looking like they're new. Just something to be aware of... wish someone had told me the same when I first started buying used machines

    Even if they're not pristine, you'll still love using it!
    True, the 1967 lathe I picked up included documentation showing that it had the cross-slide re-flecked in the late 1970s. At least it indicates that some attention was paid to maintaining the machine more recently.

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    Had to make a trip from Indiana to Minnesota, I found a K&T 16" rotary table on FB marketplace in central Illinios, so I stopped to pick it up. For the long drive I took the Ford Fusion, so we loaded this thing in behind the driver's seat with some help from the seller and his forklift. It weighs (according to the K&T docs on vintagemachinery.org) a mere 356 lbs. No way to move this without a hoist/crane. Standard sharpie thrown on top for size reference. Cost about what an import 10" new rotary would cost.



    Looks to be in great shape. I plan on taking it apart, cleaning it up and painting it, and using it with the K&T 3K vertical. It has the spline for driving from the mill feed, but I don't have a low lead attachment or rapids attachment. I may consider building a stepper/microcontroller/encoder driver for it at some point. But the number of incomplete projects is getting ahead of me, as I still need to get the mill cleaned up, rewired, and painted.

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    Default K&T manual

    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Have 2KM / 3 KM manual that can be emailed if you care to private message me that email address. The KM was a few years prior to yours
    Hi, new to this forum. Recently purchased a 2k serial # 29-3303. Seen this post about manuals and tried messaging my email. Couldn't get the message sent. Would appreciate any help in getting those manuals.

    Thanks in advance

    Craig

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    Default Sixteen Inch Rotab

    Nice rotab!.. I have the 16 inch power driven unit as well.. Yours also has crank, sector, and one hole plate.... Mine was missing the hand wheel and also the directional lever.....I used mine on my 2d as I have a drive bracket for it....Cheers from Louisiana.. Ramsay 1
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dsc00004.jpg  

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    Slow progress on cleaning up the K&T. Been cleaning and repainting, which is purely a cosmetic thing but I dislike machine green. The motor, 10HP, was wired to the power contactor with a combination of 14ga solid and 16ga stranded, and as I got it was set up for 230V. Nameplate FLA is on the order of 26A. The existing wire would be barely comfortable for half that, which makes me wonder if it had been set up for 440V at one time. I'm running it at 230V so I'm replacing the motor to contactor leads with 10ga MTW, adding an overload/heater. Had to pull the motor out as there just wasn't room in there to pull new wires with the motor in place. Good chance to clean everything up and check the motor bearings.

    12oz beverage can show for scale.






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    I think you're like me. Its real easy to procrastinate one project when you have others to attend to also.

    I keep telling myself I'm more productive this way, on the grand scale, but the pieces and "to do" list grow.

    Nice looking shop btw.

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    Busch Latte

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I think you're like me. Its real easy to procrastinate one project when you have others to attend to also.

    I keep telling myself I'm more productive this way, on the grand scale, but the pieces and "to do" list grow.

    Nice looking shop btw.
    I was offered a K&T 2CK horizontal last week for an awfully tempting price. But it would be another project, and I'm out of space for now. The shop in the picture is meant to be the garage for working on the vehicles/tractors/etc. The original garage is completely overwhelmed with machining, woodworking, and my wife's space for refinishing furniture. I've already started clearing and leveling to build a new 60x40 shop, will leave the woodworking and refinishing in the old building and move the welding and machining to the new space next year. Hopefully. Building out a new shop will be another major project.

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    How do you like the engineering redo, a cooling fan on the motor pulley to make the motor run cool in the hole???...Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    Busch Latte
    Anal-Hoser-Buttwasher's tinned, ready-made, store-bought urine sample for the lazy, you mean?

    Gord Bamford - Breakfast Beer - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    How do you like the engineering redo, a cooling fan on the motor pulley to make the motor run cool in the hole???...Phil
    Ppphhht! That's no big deal.

    My Cazeneuve has a cross between the Devil and an air-raid siren built into the hub of the mechanical band-brake .... to remind a body the French gal is only for emergency wartime use .. and that I am MEANT to go use a 10EE that knows how to keep a secret about what it is carrying in its belly!

    "Cool in the hole" is just a byproduct of old-age and glacial morons.. or something like that?

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    If you take the end bells off, you will likely find the windings packed full of grease because some trunk monkey did not know how to properly grease the bearings... Remove purge plug, pump grease in until the grease in your grease gun comes out of the purge plug hole.. Wipe grease from purge plug hole. Run motor for one minute to expel excess grease.. Wipe purge plug hole.. Re install purge plug.. DO NOT ADD MORE GREASE! Many good motors have been ruined by grease in the windings causing temperature rise and failure.. Cheers from Louisiana.. Ramsay 1


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